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#3041252 24-Feb-2023 12:39

Dochart:

He’s definitely a better bowler than what his test bowling average is currently. You have to remember the times that he has played he has always had to play with the old ball. Now with Boult gone his test bowling average should be much better than what it is currently.

He done quite well in both NZ and English conditions. He has played county cricket for a few years in English and has always average around 24 or lower.

I was going to mention that too, especially on dry surfaces with no bite compounding the old ball. Similar to Wagner getting no swing now with bowling 4th up, felt Mitchell could wait.

Yes the FC avg given hes done so in county cricket is even better, you look at Sears at 24 which is all NZ domestic batters.

On a very pedantic topic, I agree with Rigga about these unscheduled drinks breaks, in cool condition they need a drink every 30 minutes? Especially 20 mins from lunch is lame. Not a fan.

Wagner bowls two bumpers in a row and Brook dispatches him to cow corner. He needs genuine bouncers to him and not 2 in a row. The short leg could be useful in that situation too.

Edit: NZ really do need another wicket before lunch or they may feel disgruntled given how many close calls both Brook and Root have had, they may then go searching for wickets instead of sticking with this accuracy. Focus on seam presentation and let the pitch and seam do the work, with the odd scrambled seam and bumper thrown in for variance.

Edit: Wagner following Brook and gets spanked, a yorker on the stumps instead would likely be extremely dangerous for Brook. He is better than our other options not injured, but he needs to show some nouse here.

Good to see Southee bending the back, Bond had him mid 130s when he was at his best and hes getting up there again today. His economy is under 3rpo which is excellent given Brook is going at near 6rpo.

This is one very deep batting lineup NZ have with Young and Henry who is a good tail batter. Foxcroft gets in the team and we get KJ back, I can see us rapidly getting back to form. Playing XI - England vs New Zealand 2nd Test 2022/23 - Cricket Insights | ESPNcricinfo.com

tdgeek

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#3041262 24-Feb-2023 13:08

They seem to be continuing the solid mindset

TeaLeaf

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#3041263 24-Feb-2023 13:09

Id call that an even session despite some commentary suggesting Eng, Brook again the difference, NZ had the chances for his wicket early on and now hes making that hurt.

Interesting to see Bracewell really tweaking that ball off the surface, just needs a bit more hoop. Phillips/Foxcroft both have better FC spin Avg's, so will be very handy when/if they make the team for SEA tours etc, throw Sodhi and Patel in and you have 4 spinners and 3 pace/seam. A lot of flexibility with such a squad for all conditions with KJ and hopefully Sears recovering fully to give us some genuine pace options.

Bracewell is a batting all rounder, but so far hes a bit of a dissapointment with the bat, he is much better than the current Avg 23. But until we have somebody who is a mid/top order batsman and can rip it (Foxy and GP), we need to stick with him, he deserves a longer crack at it. Often how far down he bats its hard to get a higher batting avg vs coming in earlier in Domestic.

Outside taking our opportunities, NZ need to find Brooks weakness and target that, but he is just so unconventional its hard to figure out any weakness, but everybody has them.

TeaLeaf

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#3041320 24-Feb-2023 13:51

What I find intriguing about Brook is not so much his much lower FC avg of 39, but he bats Tests like you would expect in an ODI, but you look at his List A avg and its only 30. Yet if he keeps this up he will end up the greatest batsman of all time, I doubt he can but I do think if he can do this in SEA and NZ he will go down as one of the greats, which after a false start is really unusual and unexpected. Perplexing statistically but obvious what to put his recent success too, coinciding with the Baz/Stokes England.

Harry Brook Profile - Cricket Player England | Stats, Records, Video (espncricinfo.com)

Edit: Henry was just building pressure on him with some perfect deliveries with one going passed the edge and then he just gets the length a foot wrong and driven for 4. There really is a zero margin of Error to Brook.

Root is 2 feet out of the crease. Get that damn short fielder in so he cant remain out of his crease, which is negating the LBW etc. This is where Kane was a better captain and Mccullum even better.

Overall though, Eng RPO 3.5 after 30 overs shows NZ has been incredibly more accurate than the first test and havnt just thrown Wagner in to try and bounce players out which opened the flood gates. Henry has been fantastic and is still getting the ball to move off the surface to Brook, who seems to be respecting him the most.

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#3041326 24-Feb-2023 14:10

Its all changed. I recall when 250 was a grand ODI score. A test draw was usually the case. Like all sports they evolve. I watch cricket, golf, motorsport, they are all a shadow of decades ago.

ENG wise, they are using their skill, playing more aggressive but not silly. Risk vs reward. The tradition was stay in for 3 weeks, at hardly any runs (slight exaggeration there :-) )

Now say ENG do well but dont bat too long, but they score more runs per hour. Kiwis have to do the same. They can't bat boring as ENG are shortening their two innings, so they are lengthening the time that Black Caps have to bat (so they could bat boring) but the reality is wickets fall over time, the more time there is the easier it is to force a draw and bowl them out

Adapt

TeaLeaf

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#3041328 24-Feb-2023 14:16

Flap sake Southee, thats the 3rd time Brook has had an edge or shot go to a silly mid on/short leg type position. Somebody needs to put a word in his ear, if the guy keeps making the same error you cannot ignore it, put somebody under the lid in tight.

Now Mitchell is dishing up Brook pies, I knew this would be a problem. Id prefer to see the spinner if Mitchell can't rain it in.

Edit: FINALLY a short leg in place. Unfortunately 100 runs and 4 catches too late.

The bowling is MUCH improved, but the captaincy is just too vanilla, ignoring obvious oppurtunities.

KJ with his ability to bumper off a length would have been a real handful for Brook with his tendency to loft to short leg. Wags isnt quick enough and lacks the height to get it off the surface from such a length.

Not a fan of overusing the yorker, but havnt seen a single one today, would like to see Henry slip one in with all his muster, Henry having the most accuracy with some pace.

TeaLeaf

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#3041380 24-Feb-2023 15:08

NZ need this wicket before Eng put on the 200 to open an end for Stokes, which wont be easy either, but if they can get them 250-5, NZ has a chance of a sub 350 score, which NZ should be able to match. But at this rate its looking unlikely. NZ simply too slow with that short leg position with 4 genuine catches to that spot and the lofted ball to mid on which Southee didnt even move for which was utterly Bizarre.

Edit: What can you say, from 21/3 to 237/3, a simply brilliant rebuild given the run rate is escalating with no fear. Hats off to Eng.

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TeaLeaf

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#3041445 24-Feb-2023 16:53

Surely this will be a top 10 fastest 200? Havnt looked that record up but I know a few in the top 10.

The kid doesnt know what fear is so he doesnt play with any.

I said when NZ didnt put the short leg in and then Southee didnt move toward the catch that he will make NZ pay and now its too late. I know Kane is helping Tim, but the strategy is reactive not proactive. Its not that you can blame past tense, but damn its frustrating.

Given Eng did this in Pak too, nobody can question Mccullum's coaching and tactics. The ashes will be interesting though, with the quality Fast Medium bowlers that NZ lacks, Cummins maybe Brooks fall from this 100+ average and bring him back to some resemblance of reality. We shall see in half a years time.

I agree with McMillan who is digging into NZ and its aging players, been saying that for a long time. Also thoughts on Kane vs Mccullum as captain was that Kane is terribly conservative in comparison. Then you have Tim who is just a nonsense Test captain. Zero players below 30 is bad selection management, we have had openings with Nichols rubbish batting and then you have players you should be resting and playing young talent. Complete mismanagement.

This is glorious to watch from a cricket perspective.

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#3041538 24-Feb-2023 18:51

TeaLeaf:

Surely this will be a top 10 fastest 200? Havnt looked that record up but I know a few in the top 10.

The kid doesnt know what fear is so he doesnt play with any.

I said when NZ didnt put the short leg in and then Southee didnt move toward the catch that he will make NZ pay and now its too late. I know Kane is helping Tim, but the strategy is reactive not proactive. Its not that you can blame past tense, but damn its frustrating.

Given Eng did this in Pak too, nobody can question Mccullum's coaching and tactics. The ashes will be interesting though, with the quality Fast Medium bowlers that NZ lacks, Cummins maybe Brooks fall from this 100+ average and bring him back to some resemblance of reality. We shall see in half a years time.

I agree with McMillan who is digging into NZ and its aging players, been saying that for a long time. Also thoughts on Kane vs Mccullum as captain was that Kane is terribly conservative in comparison. Then you have Tim who is just a nonsense Test captain. Zero players below 30 is bad selection management, we have had openings with Nichols rubbish batting and then you have players you should be resting and playing young talent. Complete mismanagement.

This is glorious to watch from a cricket perspective.

Look, I like your posts, BUT you are heavily biased. If we do well you praise the awesomeness, if we dont you attack hard.

1. We are either good enough or not

2. We play to our strengths or not

3. We keep old players past the use by date, or not

4. We play conservative (coaching, selection and Captain) or not

End of the day the results count. A today win or loss? Meaningless. 10 tests, thats an assessment. Look at ENG, and yes I am a Black Caps fans, enjoyed many a match and throw the laptop out the window on others. We punch above our weight for sure, but Ive learnt to be realistic. Hang on to Ross too long, Guppy too long, now we hang onto solid but not great players for too long

I would rather lose with top notch young talent being outgunned than old solid guys being outplayed. The former gives you a leg in to the future.

TeaLeaf

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#3041601 24-Feb-2023 20:09

No no you are reading into things way too personally. It is merely critique of the sport, good or bad. I do the same for all teams on cricket forums. As a top level sportsman Im sure you banter in your chosen sports forums, you seem to enjoy the same on this thread.

Im more a fan of the game than just the BC's. But you can't be a fan of a team or sportsman without some bias, thats part and parcel of being Fanatical. As I said, hats off to Eng, so, shrug shoulders emoji.

It was very frustrating to watch from a cricket perspective, if you had been watching Im sure you would agree.

The main criticism around NZ at the moment is the lack of youth ready and waiting. Every player including replacements is 30+. Commentary (on air and off) are talking about what happens when they all drop off at the same time, with 4 or so key players having already done so post WTC. Its always a hard one to manage, but we do have some obvious choices that we havnt taken.

NZ are missing KJ tearing through the guts after the initial blows from Tim and Trent. His ability to deliver finger breaking bumpers on what looks a good length to the batsman is just irreplaceable. Hes done it to Eng and Ind on a number of occasions. He would have hurried Brooks up and im sure even Tim would have had the short leg in for KJ. Lets hope he returns healthy for the away season.

Brooks is terribly exciting and fun to watch. He will eventually return to earth. But Im also fairly confident he will go on with it and level out as the first of the next Gen top tier batsman, provided he has a squad around him that he doesnt have to carry (ie like Lara had to).

TeaLeaf

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#3041682 25-Feb-2023 11:06

Edit: Too much happening this session.

Will Eng declare with just the 3 bowlers wickets to follow, I think Mccullum might still stick to some convention of normalcy while Root is still out there. but will likely Dec after that, while the pitch is still green and offering plenty of movement to the new ball.

Anderson and Broad are going to take wickets on this pitch, NZ top order better practise a golf ball against the wall to get some top level hand eye going as its going to dart all over the place.

TeaLeaf

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#3041697 25-Feb-2023 12:13

Its a shame Conway has to take the opening role, hes the only batsman in the current squad I can see doing similar to Brook. But up against the brilliant Anderson and Broad on this deck, he may well be out too early to do the damage. Will Young we cannot expect to go back to open. Nicholls is going to get out regardless, so may as well use him as an opener and perhaps have Conway come in at the same position as Brook. Eng were 21/3 but he steadied the ship and just played sensible shots for a run a ball, sure he got very lucky 3 or 4 times but you make your own luck as they say.

Long term GP and Foxcroft will replace Nicholls and somebody else, at least lets hope, which will be perfect timing to lead NZ into a more positive style of batting alongside Conway (who Im sure will bat on to his 40s given his late start to international cricket).

Edit: And there it is, Root hits a 6 for his 150 and Mccullum/Stokes declare.

Leach showing exactly what batting with intent does with the ball flying over the slips rather than to hand.

If you take away Root and Brook, Eng were in big trouble this innings (and they too were within an inch of survival a number of times early on), it does show the system will fail against more consistent top end bowling than this weakened NZ lineup can provide. But, they have the ability to change gears, I expect them to bully most sides with the bat.

NZ will feel theylet this first innings get away from them both yesterday morning with more wickets and then this morning with too many runs in the final 10 or so overs. I was suprised to see only one yorker in 80+ overs. But you need more than 2 effective bowlers and thats the impact of losing KJ and Boult, irreplaceable.

Whatever happens, the Kiwis have to do likewise and not just defend, somebody in the top 4 needs to make a ton as does somebody in the middle order, even when wickets are falling around them. Can they take a lesson from Englands sensationally positive mindset..........

Edit: There it is as per my above thoughts, Conway out early opening the batting. I dont think its his position, but nor is it Will Youngs, Id rather see Nicholls try to take on the new ball and hopefully survive a dozen overs, to enable Conway to do similar to Brook in the middle order.

TeaLeaf

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#3041749 25-Feb-2023 12:55

Sensational from Anderson, a very loose wavering defensive shot from Williamson though (not his caper). It looks like the entire squad has lost their mojo.

Eng have disabled NZs two best batsman, Eng were 21-3 but Brook didnt come in until 5, which strategically against Eng on a green top is where you would like to have your prior #4 Conway coming in.

KJ our only bowler in the world top 10 now and hes been injured and reinjured for what will be a year.

The ebbs and flows of teams, the positive out take is NZ getting a thrashing from Eng in this series will hopefully bring them back bigger and better. Its happened to Eng, its happened to all teams. Boult hasnt retired, thats a policy issue within NZC. So hopefully they only need to find one high end replacement for Boult, but looking at domestic Im not sure who, given Sears is also injured. Such is the problem of a small player pool like NZ has in comparison to the rest.

Latham atacking and like Leach shows what an offensive edge does more often than not, up and over slips.