Israel Folau saga.

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Mad Scientist
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#2272067 8-Jul-2019 21:05

let's assume we are still playing moot court, which line was he sacked for?

i'm presuming he was sacked for the 2 words homosexuals and hell is that correct?

what does the law say about them words and being sackable - what if the 2 words were meat eaters and killing future generations from global warming - is that sackable? if the words were parents who vaccinate are murderers is that sackable? or pro guns and killing children, or some other topical stuff.

forget all the emotional response to what he said, which in your opinion may or may not be comparable to calling out a group of people and then calling them some label.

i'm thinking he's going to court to argue whether saying some words that offended a group is sackable.

and we will see the outcome after a decade or so probably!

tdgeek

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#2272068 8-Jul-2019 21:05

Batman:

so we are playing moot court now i see.

the argument is not about quoting from the bible if i'm not mistaken, it's being sacked for his religion. which is not necessarily the practice of quoting from the bible verbatim. i have no idea what australian law says about freedom to practice religion but that is my understanding.

Moot Court? We are giving our opinions, if that's ok with you. You just did the same, and for that wrong. If we want to avoid Moot Court threads, we can ask that any legal, mechanical, educational, political etc etc etc etc etc threads get banned unless you are suitably qualified. If you were suitably qualifies you would have no need too be in the thread anyway.

The sacking was not due to his religion. You are mistaken. if RA stated that, it's over. How often has Folau and others posted religious threads? A lot. No issue. Biblical quotes have been done a lot, no issue. But when HE tells YOU that YOU are going to HELL, these are his own words. That is the issue, as a representative of RA and their sponsors.

Batman

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#2272069 8-Jul-2019 21:06

tdgeek:

The sacking was not due to his religion. You are mistaken. if RA stated that, it's over. How often has Folau and others posted religious threads? A lot. No issue. Biblical quotes have been done a lot, no issue. But when HE tells YOU that YOU are going to HELL, these are his own words. That is the issue, as a representative of RA and their sponsors.

i see. i wonder what if he were anti guns/meat/vegan/vaccine/science/star wars episode 8[insert anything] and said pro guns [insert anything] people go to hell - is that sackable?

i agree the employer can have whatever rule and code of conduct the want - normally you would not challenge that. like women's only gym men cannot enter, men's only club women cannot enter, or no kids, etc you just follow the private entity's rules.

but this is beyond that, he is going to court to challenge/argue.

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#2272070 8-Jul-2019 21:15

Batman:

what if some pro guns people say anti guns people go to hell - is that sackable?

Here are a few comparisons.

Coloured people being discriminated

Ethnic people being discriminated

Gay people being discriminated

Disabled people being discriminated

AND

Anti gun people being discriminated.

Doesnt have quite the same ring does it?

Read the article about the guy that won his appeal, you can see from that he isn't the UK Folau

To repeat, Folau's religious beliefs are and were well known. Everyone knows that. They signed him, he posts many times, no issue. BUT after a warning where he posted his own words discriminating about gays, he did it again. Religion is what he is hiding behind.

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#2272072 8-Jul-2019 21:20

Batman:

tdgeek:

The sacking was not due to his religion. You are mistaken. if RA stated that, it's over. How often has Folau and others posted religious threads? A lot. No issue. Biblical quotes have been done a lot, no issue. But when HE tells YOU that YOU are going to HELL, these are his own words. That is the issue, as a representative of RA and their sponsors.

i see. i wonder what if he were anti guns/meat/vegan/vaccine/science/star wars episode 8[insert anything] and said pro guns [insert anything] people go to hell - is that sackable?

i agree the employer can have whatever rule and code of conduct the want - normally you would not challenge that. like women's only gym men cannot enter, men's only club women cannot enter, or no kids, etc you just follow the private entity's rules.

but this is beyond that, he is going to court to challenge/argue.

Do you really feel that guns/meat/vegan/vaccine/science/star wars episode equals gay people? It would be truly bizarre he he said to those parties they will go to hell. Because those activities are not ones that we discriminate against. We do for gays though, a lot, and its wrong. I'm sure you see the difference here with your potential abused parties?

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#2272101 8-Jul-2019 22:43

decibel:
And how will this play out?
https://www.eternitynews.com.au/world/englands-version-of-israel-folau-wins-his-case/

That one is over already and the outcome was predictable. That guy was a student vs some university.

Folau's situation is different more like someone agreeing to undertake a public marketing role and publicly saying stuff that offends customers while under contract and while compensated appropriately and generously for agreeing to avoid that situation in the contract.

The argument will be that he was on the job while using twitter and breaching the communications guidance associated with the contract created to avoid that situation.

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elpenguino

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#2272108 8-Jul-2019 23:55

Batman:

let's assume we are still playing moot court, which line was he sacked for?

i'm presuming he was sacked for the 2 words homosexuals and hell is that correct?

what does the law say about them words and being sackable - what if the 2 words were meat eaters and killing future generations from global warming - is that sackable? if the words were parents who vaccinate are murderers is that sackable? or pro guns and killing children, or some other topical stuff.

The difference is that being gay is an unchangeable part of who you are, much like your skin colour, not something you hold as an opinion, such as your feelings on starwars or dietery restrictions.

So his words were hate directed at people whose biggest 'sin' is to be themselves.

Folau totally misses the point of christ's compassion for and acceptance of others. He has a very shallow understanding of the bible, the new testament bit anyway, which is a surprise cos it sounds like he laps that kind of stuff up.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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#2275621 13-Jul-2019 01:41

Kiwifruta:
Handle9:
Kiwifruta:

Handle9:

This article is very good touching on the employment law. Basically it says the exact matter is untested as these cases generally settle.

The closest examples are those around political speech. Well worth a read.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/one-unresolved-legal-question-at-the-heart-of-israel-folaus-case/news-story/387b057b25ab325d35ea494b9ed087b3

Excellent article. Thanks for posting @Handle9.

You're welcome. I am still curious what homosexuals have to repent.

I didn't choose to be heterosexual, nor did most homosexuals choose their orientation.

The answer is lengthy and I haven't had the time yet to make that reply.

I'm still curious

dafman

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#2280084 20-Jul-2019 11:05

If I have any empathy for Israel, it's for the possibility he has been captured by his father's Australian incarnation of the Westboro Baptist Church.

Link here

tdgeek

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#2280102 20-Jul-2019 11:22

dafman:

If I have any empathy for Israel, it's for the possibility he has been captured by his father's Australian incarnation of the Westboro Baptist Church.

Link here

Fair point. It seems to be a hate cult. The hate extends to devout christians who happen to be Catholic. Although with all the religions in the world, its quite lucky that Israel finds himself in the only valid one. ""Only we have the truth," the Folaus said."

I'd like to see the financial reports, and their tithe scheme, and his Dad's current humble lifestyle.

Handle9

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#2311853 6-Sep-2019 16:36

This article from Fitzsimmons is interesting (he has a very clear agenda on Folau but still interesting). It appears a relatively similar context to Folau.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/the-court-case-that-could-cruel-folau-s-challenge-20190904-p52o0t.html

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Handle9

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#2311854 6-Sep-2019 16:37

Handle9:
Kiwifruta:
Handle9:
Kiwifruta:

Handle9:

This article is very good touching on the employment law. Basically it says the exact matter is untested as these cases generally settle.

The closest examples are those around political speech. Well worth a read.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/one-unresolved-legal-question-at-the-heart-of-israel-folaus-case/news-story/387b057b25ab325d35ea494b9ed087b3

Excellent article. Thanks for posting @Handle9.

You're welcome. I am still curious what homosexuals have to repent.

I didn't choose to be heterosexual, nor did most homosexuals choose their orientation.

The answer is lengthy and I haven't had the time yet to make that reply.

I'm still curious

Still curious

PhantomNVD

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#2311995 6-Sep-2019 22:03

Bi curious?

Sorry, couldn’t help that one...

From a Christian perspective, Homosexuality is sinful and Christians don’t believe God created someone with an intrinsic desire for sin (original sin is another whole topic!)

Thus is God created Man and Women in His own image, perfect and pleasing to Him, then homosexuals are people who (through ‘nurture’/experience/choice, not ‘nature’/birth) become homosexuals and have the same choice as any other sinner to repent of their sin.

Christian perspective is that homosexual are made that way by their earthly influences, experiences or choices, not by God in their birth state.

Handle9

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#2312011 6-Sep-2019 22:43

If that is the answer I'm not sure what is so complex about that. In my opinion it's an idiotic view that ignores all evidence but I wouldn't describe it as complex.

Batman

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#2312015 6-Sep-2019 22:57

PhantomNVD: Bi curious?

Sorry, couldn’t help that one...

From a Christian perspective, Homosexuality is sinful and Christians don’t believe God created someone with an intrinsic desire for sin (original sin is another whole topic!)

Thus is God created Man and Women in His own image, perfect and pleasing to Him, then homosexuals are people who (through ‘nurture’/experience/choice, not ‘nature’/birth) become homosexuals and have the same choice as any other sinner to repent of their sin.

Christian perspective is that homosexual are made that way by their earthly influences, experiences or choices, not by God in their birth state.

I only have one issue with the topic of sin. Everybody commits sins. Failing to take in the homeless into your own home is as sinful as downloading an mp3 is as sinful as getting angry is as sinful as getting excited at someone of the opposite sex is as sinful as separating from a spouse is as sinful as coitus with someone of the same sex.

Unfortunately it doesn't look good - being judgemental of only sins that one does not commit is a bit holier than thou type of thing.

Now I am actually pretty neutral about all these things because when people want free speech and want tolerance. Doesn't it go both ways. You have to accept Folau's freedom of speech and you actually have to tolerate him IMO. But I am getting the vibe that somehow that is not the case? He is not inciting violence against anyone. Yes there are all the mental health arguments and I buy that. And he has been sacked already for that, I see that he's been dealt with, end of story.

He wants to sue, well some lady sued a barber because he said he couldn't cut lady's daughter's hair. Let him have his day in court as he is allowed as an Australian.

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