The Golf Forum

Forums › Sports › The Golf Forum

1 | 2 | 3

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3085820 7-Jun-2023 07:11

mudguard:

Well that was a turn up for the books.

LIV and DP World Tour (formerly European Tour) to merge. Who on earth saw that coming!?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/golf/65825327

I'll say. From what little I read LIV is merging with the PGA and all/other international tours, LIV taking a large but not majority investment

So, LIV now gets more than 3 people watching it :-) PGA etc get bigger purses and all the best players can play together again. Ironically, all tours and all players and all viewers win

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3085823 7-Jun-2023 07:31

So, next year LIV players can rejoin the PGA, and it seems that DP World Tour and LIV will remain in place, managing themselves as part of this unified agreement

Maybe LIV will fade as the better players opt for the new and improved PGA Tour, so LIV really has little place or value moving forward?

Does LIV get OWGR? Hard to see it as the rankings would be lowly weighted given 54 holes, weak field, and no cut

Interesting to see if LIV Golf fades or stays in place as a feeder tour, given that PIF is now all in on the PGA Tour

johno1234

2793 posts

Uber Geek

#3085837 7-Jun-2023 08:57

tdgeek:

Also I dont get this

If you want an honest assessment go to the Sports Illustrated alternative rankings which give weight to the LIV tournaments. On that list Koepka is No 3, Johnson is 21

Brooks has been off the boil for a long while now, he did win recently at LIV, so he's No.3 up there with Rahmbo, Rory and Scottie??

DJ has been off the boil for a long while also, unless he is creaming it at LIV in their weak fields? 54, no cut, weak players (not all obviously) and the worse you can do is T48, just behind a few players few have even heard of? Thats hardly apples vs apples. Maybe the AB's can just play in the Super 14 and rack up Rugby ranking points? Now when ABs play Tonga that's easy ranking points, but in the real world of rugby, everyone plays everyone so it averages out.

If LIV played 4 rounds, cut, and a full field, you can certainly argue then that they can get OWGR. Like any other tour, the weighting depends on the rankings of the players in an event, and based on the top up players that would certainly weaken the rankings but at least they would have them.

Given recent events and Major tournament leaderboards, this post didn't age well!

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3085849 7-Jun-2023 09:26

johno1234:

tdgeek:

Also I dont get this

If you want an honest assessment go to the Sports Illustrated alternative rankings which give weight to the LIV tournaments. On that list Koepka is No 3, Johnson is 21

Brooks has been off the boil for a long while now, he did win recently at LIV, so he's No.3 up there with Rahmbo, Rory and Scottie??

DJ has been off the boil for a long while also, unless he is creaming it at LIV in their weak fields? 54, no cut, weak players (not all obviously) and the worse you can do is T48, just behind a few players few have even heard of? Thats hardly apples vs apples. Maybe the AB's can just play in the Super 14 and rack up Rugby ranking points? Now when ABs play Tonga that's easy ranking points, but in the real world of rugby, everyone plays everyone so it averages out.

If LIV played 4 rounds, cut, and a full field, you can certainly argue then that they can get OWGR. Like any other tour, the weighting depends on the rankings of the players in an event, and based on the top up players that would certainly weaken the rankings but at least they would have them.

Given recent events and Major tournament leaderboards, this post didn't age well!

Yep. Like Jason Day who has also resolved his injuries, he is also back. Not really a case of not aged well, he has fixed his knee issues, so he is back.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3086065 7-Jun-2023 12:45

Quite a few unhappy campers within the PGA players arena. Basically due to the about face. I can see both sides, but golf will be better off if highly funded by Saudi money as many many other sports are.

While sportswashing is there, its commonplace, so hard to argue on that score

networkn

Networkn
32349 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3086075 7-Jun-2023 13:42

tdgeek:

Quite a few unhappy campers within the PGA players arena. Basically due to the about face. I can see both sides, but golf will be better off if highly funded by Saudi money as many many other sports are.

While sportswashing is there, its commonplace, so hard to argue on that score

Like everything, it's principles vs money. In this case, money was more important as it is in many many cases.

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#3086078 7-Jun-2023 13:54

tdgeek:

I'll say. From what little I read LIV is merging with the PGA and all/other international tours, LIV taking a large but not majority investment

The PIF (Saudi Investment fund) will be ultimately in charge (they are ones pouring the billions in) - but its not clear exactly how the control will be structured...

From a CNBC interview

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/06/full-transcript-cnbcs-david-faber-speaks-with-pif-governor-yasir-al-rumayyan-pga-tour-commissioner-jay-monahan-on-announcement-of-liv-golf-merging-with-pga-tour.html

AL-RUMAYYAN is PIF Governor Yasir Al-Rumayyan

"FABER: {interviewer) The governance stays with the PGA.

AL-RUMAYYAN: Except for the certain things that has to have the full board. The normal circumstances the control stays with PGA. We are there for a number of things, you know, to have the right governance to have the right business propositions and to make the growth but the control we trust, the PGA tour we understand and we honor and we respect the history that the PGA Tour has...

BUT later

"AL-RUMAYYAN: We are investing in the game that everybody loves. The control is not there. It’s the governance that we would like to have. It’s going to be you know, a voting system and a board and the majority of the board will be the PGA, it is not going to be with us. I think and I heard this many times in different you know, investments

This indicates that the PIF will support the PGA to have a majority of the Board, but its a for profit LLC and ultimately the biggest shareholder - [the PIF) can stack the board however they choose...

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

Senecio

2710 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3086080 7-Jun-2023 14:06

tdgeek:

Quite a few unhappy campers within the PGA players arena. Basically due to the about face. I can see both sides, but golf will be better off if highly funded by Saudi money as many many other sports are.

While sportswashing is there, its commonplace, so hard to argue on that score

Golf was already highly funded by Saudi money even before LIV golf. Anyone who dismissed the LIV tour because of Saudi involvement was ignorant of just how much Saudi money was already circulating in the PGA Tour, the DP World Tour and the LPGA Tour.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3086086 7-Jun-2023 14:24

Senecio:

Golf was already highly funded by Saudi money even before LIV golf. Anyone who dismissed the LIV tour because of Saudi involvement was ignorant of just how much Saudi money was already circulating in the PGA Tour, the DP World Tour and the LPGA Tour.

Well, more highly funded now instead of a few tournaments. Along with a whole host of other sports. My only issue with LIV is that it diluted the sport a little yet they want OWGR. I've no issue with OWGR either but they would be very very low based on the low average performance rankings of the 48 players which determines the event ranking, and then you factor in 48 vs 156 players. Half of the 156 will miss the cut and therefore get no rankings for that event (I think the latter point is correct)

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#3086094 7-Jun-2023 14:46

tdgeek:

I took it that PGA will have a majority on the board

Initially yes, but in a for profit corporation, the board serve at the behest of the Shareholders...

If the PGA doesn't co-match PIF equity investments then their shareholding (and ultimate control) will be diluted...

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3086097 7-Jun-2023 14:58

wellygary:

Initially yes, but in a for profit corporation, the board serve at the behest of the Shareholders...

If the PGA doesn't co-match PIF equity investments then their shareholding (and ultimate control) will be diluted...

If that's the case then its a slam dunk. LIV tales over the PGA lock stock and barrel aa they have more or limitless funds comparatively

I think I read that PIF will be the sole or major sponsor (which may miff some other sponsors). If the PIF funding is basically sponsor funding, then the shareholding side would not be affected? As in Nike etc are not shareholders of the PGA. What I took is that PGA is in control, it now has a large sponsor partner where they will work together. I just can't see the PGA letting LIV in the door so they can just take over

johno1234

2793 posts

Uber Geek

#3086100 7-Jun-2023 15:16

The Saudi PIF Fund is worth approximately NZ$1 trillion. Effectively bottomless. They have now bought Golf in addition to events in Formula1, Football, Boxing and so on. Resistance is futile.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3086101 7-Jun-2023 15:30

johno1234:

The Saudi PIF Fund is worth approximately NZ$1 trillion. Effectively bottomless. They have now bought Golf in addition to events in Formula1, Football, Boxing and so on. Resistance is futile.

Bought or bought into, or bought into a profitable funding venture? I know they have bought sports, but buying into golf may not be quite the same

If they have as you say, then PGA is gone, long live LIV, and the DP World Tour, full takeover complete

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3086660 8-Jun-2023 17:51

Watched a few YouTube clips last night, very interesting. Pro and anti PGA/LIV

Given some here are very anti PGA and pro LIV I wont delve into it, but in short, golf wins, Greg Norman and LIV are gone. Used.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3086760 9-Jun-2023 07:50

Dr Tom Kavanagh is a lecturer in the sociology of sport at Lincoln University.

OPINION: We should not be surprised by the recent news that LIV Golf will merge with the PGA Tour and the DP World Tour.

I have seen this reasonably frequently, surprised about that. Perhaps its the sensationalism before getting the facts

LIV is not merging with the PGA, PIF is. LIV Golf is history, Greg Norman had his time in the limelight, now he is out again, used by the Saudi's.

1 | 2 | 3