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tdgeek

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#304632 22-May-2023 18:30
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Just a general top tier golf forum, PGA, LPGA, Majors, the LIV guys

 

Just watching a recording of day 4 of the PGA Championship. Many top guys over par, Tony Finau +14 and well into the round, been quite an interesting watch compared to other Tournies. Foxie +2 on his first hole, thats pretty darn good, T18. 

 

Signing off till I watch it, just started.  


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johno1234
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  #3078749 22-May-2023 18:54
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The Michael Block story - what a fairytale!

OWGR are going to have to get LIV included. 3 in the top 10 and similar with the Masters.

 
 
 

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mudguard
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  #3078751 22-May-2023 19:09
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johno1234: The Michael Block story - what a fairytale!

OWGR are going to have to get LIV included. 3 in the top 10 and similar with the Masters.


They came really include LIV, and if they do they'll earn so few points it won't matter.
Small field when no cuts puts them too far down the list.

johno1234
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  #3078828 23-May-2023 00:03
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PGA Tour's highest ranked events are no-cut now so that argument has gone.

Arguing no points for Koepka, Cam Smith, DeChambeau etc? Not acceptable to the world of golf. Asian tour, Australasian tour, Latin American tour, DP World tour get OWGR points. Stupid for LIV tour not to. Inevitable that it will happen.



mudguard
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  #3078836 23-May-2023 07:42
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johno1234: PGA Tour's highest ranked events are no-cut now so that argument has gone.

Arguing no points for Koepka, Cam Smith, DeChambeau etc? Not acceptable to the world of golf. Asian tour, Australasian tour, Latin American tour, DP World tour get OWGR points. Stupid for LIV tour not to. Inevitable that it will happen.

 

 

 

They do get points for their finishes in the PGA. All those other tours have 72 holes, cuts. PGA Tour will now have 8 no cut events. But it begs the question, how does an up and comer get on the LIV tour? Oh, they can't. It's basically a closed shop. Sure they'll cherry pick some amateurs, but there will be no Michael Block stories with LIV golf. 

 

 

 

I am really surprised it's such a big deal for the LIV players, either they're not that bright or they are lying when they say they weren't aware of the repercussions. Just take the money, enjoy playing a bit less golf and relax.

 

The thing is, I (as an amateur) could actually play in three of the majors, if I made it through open qualifying for the US and British Open, and also get into the Masters. Can't do that with LIV. 

 

Kind of reminds me of 20/20 a little bit. The short version of cricket got it's players from the long form game, generally international players. The only way in initially was to be good enough to play for one's country, that's where the exposure came from. Or rugby a few years back, where if you were good enough to play for the All Blacks, then sign a big contract overseas to see out your career. It was efforts of the original system that allowed players to jump ship. 


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  #3078912 23-May-2023 10:34
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I played golf and followed golf from secondary school until things went cattywampus for me. I enjoyed it and if I say so myself I was good at it. I haven't played in years and stopped following it when Sky monopolised sport coverage in Aotearoa. I haven't researched alternative viewing mediums.


tdgeek

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  #3079122 24-May-2023 06:45
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Im assuming the 8 no cut PGA events are a premium field, not even close to LIV who has a weak field. I could play LIV, get last every match, earn IIRC 50k per event. If they had OWGR points id be consistently averaging a 48th place. Let alone that all bar Cam Smith are no good, past it, and very low ranked players, such as Chase Koepka. 48th place every match is totally fake.

 

Im anti LIV, not just because of Khasshoggi and Saudi fake money, its a massive unsustainable loss making machine, satisfying The Sharks vendetta.As my comment above re 48th place being worthy of ranking points, never. 

 

But back to the PGA Championship

 

Michael Block is a great story. Enjoyed the thawing of Brooks and Bryson. Watched some LIV interviews that had both in them, they are all good now. Rory continues to have a tourney where he takes the golf course apart then fails miserably, hard to fathom that one. Assume his shot selection exceeds his skill, setting too high a goal per hole, perhaps. Many Day 4's bear no resemblance to the other days. Got a lead and get run down, that happens a lot, so admired Koepka's Day 4, played to his maximum, never faltered. Now he is knee issue free, he will go on with it, possibly might be regretting LIV now, it made sense before when he can get huge money for an out of form player, now he's healthy, his legacy will only be Majors.

 

Foxie played well, T23, many top players behind him

 

It was a good watch


tdgeek

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  #3079123 24-May-2023 06:48
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mudguard:

 

 

 

I am really surprised it's such a big deal for the LIV players, either they're not that bright or they are lying when they say they weren't aware of the repercussions. Just take the money, enjoy playing a bit less golf and relax.

 

 

 

 

Yep. Aside from my bias, they made a choice, easy money, less events. The legacy of x number of wins, they favoured the cash, thats ok, as Rory and JT always say. 

 

You play there, we play here, sorted.




mudguard
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  #3079129 24-May-2023 07:15
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mudguard:
johno1234: The Michael Block story - what a fairytale!

OWGR are going to have to get LIV included. 3 in the top 10 and similar with the Masters.


They can't really include LIV, and if they do they'll earn so few points it won't matter.
Small field with no cuts puts them too far down the list.


tdgeek

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  #3079134 24-May-2023 08:35
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mudguard:

 


They can't really include LIV, and if they do they'll earn so few points it won't matter.
Small field with no cuts puts them too far down the list.

 

 

From what I gather OWGR are weighted to the rankings of the field. In LIV's case their average ranking pre LIV woudl be very low. Reduce weghting as its 54 and no cut and a field of just 48. Also, make it so you can play DP, PGA etc etc, and when you feel like it, enter into a LIV event anytime you want...


johno1234
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tdgeek

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  #3079225 24-May-2023 11:32
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johno1234:

 

Not usually a fan of Mr Reason, but he nails it. 

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/300886736/mark-reason-thank-you-to-the-pga-of-america-for-telling-golfs-honest-truth

 

 

 

 

 

 

LIV is packed with talent just as the regular tour is

 

 

 

Incorrect

 

 

 

It would also be adult, if the world rankings could acknowledge this and start awarding points for LIV tournaments.   

 

 

 

LIV is a private tour, no one allowed in. 


tdgeek

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  #3079233 24-May-2023 11:42
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Also I dont get this

 

If you want an honest assessment go to the Sports Illustrated alternative rankings which give weight to the LIV tournaments. On that list Koepka is No 3, Johnson is 21

 

Brooks has been off the boil for a long while now, he did win recently at LIV, so he's No.3 up there with Rahmbo, Rory and Scottie?? 

 

DJ has been off the boil for a long while also, unless he is creaming it at LIV in their weak fields? 54, no cut, weak players (not all obviously) and the worse you can do is T48, just behind a few players few have even heard of? Thats hardly apples vs apples. Maybe the AB's can just play in the Super 14 and rack up Rugby ranking points? Now when ABs play Tonga that's easy ranking points, but in the real world of rugby, everyone plays everyone so it averages out. 

 

 

 

If LIV played 4 rounds, cut, and a full field, you can certainly argue then that they can get OWGR. Like any other tour, the weighting depends on the rankings of the players in an event, and based on the top up players that would certainly weaken the rankings but at least they would have them. 


mudguard
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  #3079428 24-May-2023 16:30
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johno1234:

 

Not usually a fan of Mr Reason, but he nails it. 

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/300886736/mark-reason-thank-you-to-the-pga-of-america-for-telling-golfs-honest-truth

 

 

 

 

But there's a hypocrisy with the LIV Tour. Most of the players became superstars on the PGA Tour and got offered really, really large sums to play on the LIV Tour. And let's not pretend any of them thought they'd be allowed to play regular events or majors. I'm sure the odd agent or lawyer would have said, oh they'll try prevent you, but we'll take them to court etc.

 

But the LIV thing is a one way street. If not for the amateur and professional associations, how does one get the exposure to play in a LIV event? I mean both the European and PGA Tours traditionally were cagey about letting it's members play on both of those tours. Minimum events needed etc. 

 

Taking my biased hat off. What would the landscape look like if world ranking points were applied to LIV events? All that I can see happening is it would enable LIV members only, to pick and choose other events to play in.

 

Would the world number 75 suddenly be allowed to play a LIV event? Could the Asia Pacific Amateur Champion play in the big LIV season finale? At the moment winning one of the big amateur events gets you into THE US MASTERS. 


tdgeek

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  #3079449 24-May-2023 18:12
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mudguard:

 

 

 

But there's a hypocrisy with the LIV Tour. Most of the players became superstars on the PGA Tour and got offered really, really large sums to play on the LIV Tour. And let's not pretend any of them thought they'd be allowed to play regular events or majors. I'm sure the odd agent or lawyer would have said, oh they'll try prevent you, but we'll take them to court etc.

 

But the LIV thing is a one way street. If not for the amateur and professional associations, how does one get the exposure to play in a LIV event? I mean both the European and PGA Tours traditionally were cagey about letting it's members play on both of those tours. Minimum events needed etc. 

 

Taking my biased hat off. What would the landscape look like if world ranking points were applied to LIV events? All that I can see happening is it would enable LIV members only, to pick and choose other events to play in.

 

Would the world number 75 suddenly be allowed to play a LIV event? Could the Asia Pacific Amateur Champion play in the big LIV season finale? At the moment winning one of the big amateur events gets you into THE US MASTERS. 

 

 

Id like to play for LIV, $10 contract. Ill be last, T48 or 48, thats all good, EU or US$50k per event...

 

Sports are vertically integrated. Grassroots to Elite, golf is the same as rugby. School, town, province, ITM Cup, Super 14, All Blacks. LIV disrupts this to the detriment of the sport. PGA is slightly diluted, pity that but in reality the only real dilution was Cam Smith. Brooks is now knee happy so thats a pity we will only see him in Majors. Lets do this to rugby, tennis, league, etc etc and etc. Sport has ONE elite competition. OR, it has two, both of which are diluted so are not real competition. Its fake, financially not sustainable. But it will be sustained by a fake industry.

 

Let LIV play normally, as with all other golf, players can go PGA, LIV, Asian, South African, Japan, Australia, NZ. But LIV is like Apple, a closed book. Pity but thats fine, you play your closed book, the rest play theirs. Sorted.

 

Again I am anti LIV, BUT only as they are locked down. Open LIV up, level playing field. 


mudguard
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  #3085818 7-Jun-2023 06:56
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Well that was a turn up for the books.

 

LIV and DP World Tour (formerly European Tour) to merge. Who on earth saw that coming!?

 

https://www.bbc.com/sport/golf/65825327


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