Formula1 2019

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#2263607 24-Jun-2019 19:50

I don't think Bottas needs to be, he is showing that while he has awesome one lap pace in the Merc, his race craft for the most part is less than Hamilton by quite some margin.... It will only get sticky if Ferarri or Redbull get close to hamilton in the drivers championship and Bottas is getting poles... Otherwise I think they will let it play out on track as Bottas and Hamilton appear to not be as aggressive as Hamilton vs. Rosberg

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#2263609 24-Jun-2019 19:53

langi27:

Also disappointing Gasly hasn't found any real form, I liked him at Torrorosso, he'll get the chop chop by summer break if results don't pick up. Rumor is Hulkenberg will take his seat.

Hadn't heard that. I can see Kvyat back there. he is quick and he is racing well. Akin to Max who toned himself down, same with DK

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#2263612 24-Jun-2019 19:56

Benoire:

It will only get sticky if Ferarri or Redbull get close to hamilton in the drivers championship and Bottas is getting poles...

Exactly, they get to be all gratious in their winning and say they think the racing should be closer etc, because they're sitting pretty.
If the racing was closer we'd see the introduction of pressure and team orders coming in to help fight the competition, but until that point they can 'let their drivers fight' fairly safely and look good in the process.

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#2263614 24-Jun-2019 20:00

Benoire:

I don't think Bottas needs to be, he is showing that while he has awesome one lap pace in the Merc, his race craft for the most part is less than Hamilton by quite some margin.... It will only get sticky if Ferarri or Redbull get close to hamilton in the drivers championship and Bottas is getting poles... Otherwise I think they will let it play out on track as Bottas and Hamilton appear to not be as aggressive as Hamilton vs. Rosberg

I agree Lewis has his measure. No matter what, Bottas would be having to beat Hamlton and beat Mercedes, Lewis gets the favours.

Ferrari or RBR wit get near Mercedes, its a no contest. Bottas will give up, if he already hasn't. He started off as ready to go, now he is in steady mode. So, if Lewis has an off weekend where Bottas does well, "Valterri is such a tough team mate blah blah blah" Seen it all before in F1. There is always a pecking order. Hulk and Honey Badger will settle into the pecking order now that Danny Ricc has marked his spot.

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#2263617 24-Jun-2019 20:11

haha I now can't get the image of Danny Ric marking Hulks race shoes and shouting MINE out of my head

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#2264691 25-Jun-2019 22:50

A lot of concern being raised over whether or not F1 is actually still a sport.
The numbers show Mercedes being considerably more dominant that previous periods of one team leading, such as the Schumacher Ferrari and Red Bull eras.
Just the general direction is really being questioned now, with TV rights meaning fewer people can see the races without pay to view, and the wide/safe tracks being more like supermarket carparks nowadays.

eg here https://wt🙄f1.com/post/people-are-becoming-genuinely-concerned-about-the-current-state-of-f1/

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#2264736 26-Jun-2019 07:09

A notable difference during the Schumacher era was the points changes, tyre changes, TC introduction/repeals etc which were all aimed at improving racing (i.e. pegging back Ferrari).

The attitude seems to a lot more "go get 'em tiger" when it comes to Mercedes/LH dominating year after year. Matters are not helped by the majority of English-speaking F1 coverage coming out of the UK. The media there have never hidden their frustration that the greatest driver ever was German and pantsed several beloved British drivers along the way.

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#2264750 26-Jun-2019 08:07

A major tech change is likely to leave gaps in the teams. Natural gaps, lack of money gaps, luck gaps. We finally saw Ferrari reach Mercedes last year. Vettel mistakes and Ferrari mistakes stopped a down to the wire series, but it was there. Should have left it there. This year more changes so we restart the problem. Its a team sport and changes like this always favour big teams

GV27

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#2264771 26-Jun-2019 08:34

tdgeek:

A major tech change is likely to leave gaps in the teams. Natural gaps, lack of money gaps, luck gaps. We finally saw Ferrari reach Mercedes last year. Vettel mistakes and Ferrari mistakes stopped a down to the wire series, but it was there. Should have left it there. This year more changes so we restart the problem. Its a team sport and changes like this always favour big teams

The problem is the changes that are being made were never going to level things up to begin with. Mercedes killed off any chance of engine reform for the 2021 regs, even though the engines are now far more expensive than they ever have been and were introduced with cost-cutting in mind. Unsurprisingly, as they have the dominant powertrain, this locks in their dominance for another generation of rules while other teams/manufacturers have to catch them on the engine front while Mercedes gets to develop in other areas. It's this kind of 'accepted dominance' which is so grating.

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#2264773 26-Jun-2019 08:42

GV27:

tdgeek:

A major tech change is likely to leave gaps in the teams. Natural gaps, lack of money gaps, luck gaps. We finally saw Ferrari reach Mercedes last year. Vettel mistakes and Ferrari mistakes stopped a down to the wire series, but it was there. Should have left it there. This year more changes so we restart the problem. Its a team sport and changes like this always favour big teams

The problem is the changes that are being made were never going to level things up to begin with. Mercedes killed off any chance of engine reform for the 2021 regs, even though the engines are now far more expensive than they ever have been and were introduced with cost-cutting in mind. Unsurprisingly, as they have the dominant powertrain, this locks in their dominance for another generation of rules while other teams/manufacturers have to catch them on the engine front while Mercedes gets to develop in other areas. It's this kind of 'accepted dominance' which is so grating.

Exactly, they already had a head start for this year. 5 years ago, it was a big change and one big team was likely to start off ahead, it took 5 years to get one team to catch up. Now, welcome 2019, starts again.

There is no answer, as its a constructors title, but the fans who pay the bills are expecting a drivers title. Not sure how to fix that

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#2264781 26-Jun-2019 08:54

tdgeek:

Exactly, they already had a head start for this year. 5 years ago, it was a big change and one big team was likely to start off ahead, it took 5 years to get one team to catch up. Now, welcome 2019, starts again.

There is no answer, as its a constructors title, but the fans who pay the bills are expecting a drivers title. Not sure how to fix that

The fans are expecting close racing and a decent spectacle; I would have said radically simplifying rules and engines to get us back to that point should be first order of business. Instead we're going to end up with basically what we have now but looking slightly different and spending a whole heap of money to get it.

Also, bring back V10s. There, I said it.

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#2264793 26-Jun-2019 09:11

GV27:

tdgeek:

Exactly, they already had a head start for this year. 5 years ago, it was a big change and one big team was likely to start off ahead, it took 5 years to get one team to catch up. Now, welcome 2019, starts again.

There is no answer, as its a constructors title, but the fans who pay the bills are expecting a drivers title. Not sure how to fix that

The fans are expecting close racing and a decent spectacle; I would have said radically simplifying rules and engines to get us back to that point should be first order of business. Instead we're going to end up with basically what we have now but looking slightly different and spending a whole heap of money to get it.

Also, bring back V10s. There, I said it.

We have Constructors who want to beat the others. Its the pinnacle of motorsport

But we want cars to be closely matched, and thats not compatible.

F3 I think they use identical cars. F2 I think they use different chassis bit its still closeish

MotoGP I think Moto2 are the same bike, Triumph Triple 735 or so. Moto3 is different bit closish. MotoGP is F1 type teams, close racing, as its not designed to be the pinnacle, so more money isn't the same advantage that F1 is

The teams have too much input and money is too narrow.

If you went back to V10, the key is not V10, the key is a simple set of engine rules with a simple engine. A simple engine, with an identical turbo, forget the battery. The smarter team will be better but not much better, as the simple design means less room for optimising. No room on a standard turbo

But F1 is then, officially not the pinnacle of motorsport

Or get eF1 running on the same race weekend, with the F1 drivers

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#2264889 26-Jun-2019 10:44

tdgeek:

If you went back to V10, the key is not V10, the key is a simple set of engine rules with a simple engine. A simple engine, with an identical turbo, forget the battery. The smarter team will be better but not much better, as the simple design means less room for optimising. No room on a standard turbo

But F1 is then, officially not the pinnacle of motorsport

Or get eF1 running on the same race weekend, with the F1 drivers

F1 was never "officially" the pinnacle of motorsport; it's just a self-applied label. Rallying or endurance racing or air racing could equally claim the label, and it would be true in their particular domain. One day soon, eF1 will be faster; who will be the pinnacle of motorsport then?

Having said that, the label has turned into a somewhat self-fulfilling prophecy, attracting money and technology.

My own thinking is that F1 rules are too restrictive; loosen them to bring back real innovation so we see variants like the 6-wheeled Tyrell and so on. Tighter rules don't save money... they just focus the available money into small domains. Smart teams will innovate and lead for a season; the following season everyone will have those features and new innovations will appear.

tdgeek

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#2264896 26-Jun-2019 10:50

frankv:

tdgeek:

If you went back to V10, the key is not V10, the key is a simple set of engine rules with a simple engine. A simple engine, with an identical turbo, forget the battery. The smarter team will be better but not much better, as the simple design means less room for optimising. No room on a standard turbo

But F1 is then, officially not the pinnacle of motorsport

Or get eF1 running on the same race weekend, with the F1 drivers

F1 was never "officially" the pinnacle of motorsport; it's just a self-applied label. Rallying or endurance racing or air racing could equally claim the label, and it would be true in their particular domain. One day soon, eF1 will be faster; who will be the pinnacle of motorsport then?

Having said that, the label has turned into a somewhat self-fulfilling prophecy, attracting money and technology.

My own thinking is that F1 rules are too restrictive; loosen them to bring back real innovation so we see variants like the 6-wheeled Tyrell and so on. Tighter rules don't save money... they just focus the available money into small domains. Smart teams will innovate and lead for a season; the following season everyone will have those features and new innovations will appear.

F1 engines have exceeded any other for technological advance

It needs not to be a Constructors sport. The driver is there to make it legal, and to grab fans, which get disappointed year in and year out. Its the model. Its a car money sport but the fans paid for the driver race sport. Lewis will win another 4 titles. In what is a 2 driver series, where arguably he gets favoured. Same with Schummy. Thats false IMHO

GV27

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#2264902 26-Jun-2019 11:06

tdgeek:

F1 engines have exceeded any other for technological advance

It needs not to be a Constructors sport. The driver is there to make it legal, and to grab fans, which get disappointed year in and year out. Its the model. Its a car money sport but the fans paid for the driver race sport. Lewis will win another 4 titles. In what is a 2 driver series, where arguably he gets favoured. Same with Schummy. Thats false IMHO

Lewis will win another four titles because the media is fine with Lewis winning four titles. They won't hold him to the same scrutiny as a Schumacher or Vettel because he's British.

The last real technical advance in F1 was the V6 Turbo itself, where fuel consumption was slashed by 30%. It was mind-blowing at the time, but it's hard to feel impressed by it years later with continued one-team dominance. Since then the sport has been effectively stagnant. Unfortunately this has come at a cost and at $20m a unit, that's too much.

I'm not saying the answer is the $50K DFV. But a simple V10 with a standard electric turbocharger would give you a decent, cheaper power platform to work from. If the sport had the stomach, they'd revert to H patterns, dual element front wings and radically simpler aero with a standard floor.

But the sport has decided it's fine with runaway victories as long as it's LH who runs away with the victory. So it won't happen.

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