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6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3191035 5-Feb-2024 14:16

Bad luck Mitchell, that was a heck of a caught n bowled by Brand (C). Mitchell stood there, mouth open. Brand shaking his hand immediately and still is, was struck with power.

If Mitchell had got us to 400, Id have put GP in ahead of Blundell, but Blundell is like Nicholls, really good at home.

Ravindra has been dropped twice and edged it through slips 4 times. Some would call it luck, some would say streaky, I say its part of cricket, provided you dont keep saving your career with such innings and cant bat away from home, like the player he has replaced.

Tired bowlers, GP will tee off when he does get in, if he fails, Santner is more than capable of supporting the "In" player.

Edit: Oh Blunders, how many chances does he get? Its almost put Cleaver/Fletcher out of being options due to also being 30yo+.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3191158 5-Feb-2024 15:38

THIS is why so many were harsh on Sa sending this team. Player is literally broken down due to fatigue but the PT has been their best. I am still happy for the WTC pts and first NZ series victory if it happens.

Well done Rachin, I wish they would ask GP to slow down too, but hes so far down the order... I guess they know this and will likely live with it until a lower spot becomes available.

Handle9

11386 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#3191165 5-Feb-2024 16:55

TeaLeaf:

My opinion is that our best players should be sourced from domestic cricket (when players go beyond just a slump in Tests or retire), not stalwarts that Stead has had blind faith in, especially when we have players in domestic with better FC averages, but more to the point if players have performed well for some time in domestic (couple yrs etc), then they should be taking the spots of those failing for the last couple of years at Test level.

Nicholls has looked good since back in Domestic, but I think he will struggle to make the team again.

NZC has a very structured talent ID and development process. They don't pick guys straight out of first class cricket. They prepare guys to succeed.

If a player performs at first class level, or is identified as a special talent in the age group program, they'll get put into the New Zealand A program. They get taught how to prepare at the next level, how to tour and have to perform at that level.

If they do well at the NZ A level then they'll usually get a look at white ball cricket and/or a red ball tour, perhaps without playing much. Then they'll get a chance in the big team.

Nicholls has 9 test centuries. That's more than Stephen Fleming, Geoff Howath and Glenn Turner. He's number 8 in test centuries for NZ. It's entirely unsurprising he is doing well in first class cricket, he's quality bat.

Comparing his first class record with guys who have only played domestic cricket isn't that easy, half his first class games are tests.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3191386 6-Feb-2024 10:59

Yep, thanks for putting the process into good descript.

What I was trying to say is, when the people outside of the "interested" fail, all countries fall back on domestic FC as a measure of its strength but it is a platform also for players forcing themselves of "interest".

The main worry I have is not our batting or bowling depth, but who are they eying up for WK. You have young Max Chu who has a decent amount of experience, he just needs to get that avg up a bit from 30....

One thing I see trend with black caps stepping up from domestic in the last decade is an increase in avg from FC to Test of about 5 ie FC 40 Test 45 etc. Which is clearly the winning environment we have developed. I just hope Kane can hand the mantle over successfully. Who knows is just around the corner as well.

Edit: there goes Sa possibly best player, he looked so solid, to get out playing like that was odd.

Edit: Henry is on a heater, not playing a shot is always dodgy, but umpires call hitting is always a bit gutting, but thats what you get.

Interestingly Henry avgs 17.7 vs our hardest foe Sa (will be lower now). He really does follow the Hadlee recipe, corridor of chaos (4th stump) and let the seam do the work + mid 130kph (although other similar styles like Mcgrath was in the mid 120s and Cummins is mid 140s)

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3191404 6-Feb-2024 12:40

Blundell dropping Peterson off Santner may end up costly if Sa can avoid follow on, but that looks unlikely with 4 wickets left.

all our bowlers have been good, Southee unlucky, KJ looks excellent coming back from a serious injury, Henry is metronomic, Santner is so accurate.

Santner turning the ball, Id like to see Phillips have a couple of overs being of more predigious turn. Either way this is a sub continent type pitch which will start breaking up by tomorrow, with cracks already in it after couple of days, which to be fair is what NZC wanted, one ground in NZ where its sub continent like, which I think the theory is to improve our batting in the sub continent. Obviously its better than a dirt track but Im starting to see the value, as long as we never select such a weak sub cont team like Bang on this pitch again.

edit: and on that queue they giving Rachin a go. Phillips would be my go to, with his FC and Test avg circa 40 and mostly on NZ pitches, Rachins avg of 63 (3 wickets) was on turning wickets in Ind and ~50 in FC NZ. Right hand batsmen though, but still think Phillips can handle that despite not being Left arm offy.

Edit: Get a second slip in ugggh, 3rd edge that goes past Mitchell.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3191497 6-Feb-2024 17:36

I think the msg from Southee is a bit silly (if that was in the inter over 12th man msg). Dont inforce follow on, fair enough, but then ask Conway and Williamson to start smacking boundaries, imo with a full strength aussie team coming it was more important to keep Conway scoring to get his mojo back.

Williamson dropped in the prior over trying to slog one...... much like the first innings. Odd for him.

Id have put GP in ahead of Rachin, and probably Mitchell after that. But Rachin is the one with the most runs this test and can tonk it too.

edit: now another player who didnt need to be out there, Rachin gone for 14.

edit: Kane another ton, this one at nearly run a ball.... extraordinary.

heavenlywild

5059 posts

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#3191547 6-Feb-2024 20:57

Can't beat time in the middle and making the SA bowlers more tired.

Plenty of time in the Test with no weather concerns

Declaration likely overnight and the game to finish tomorrow.

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TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3191676 7-Feb-2024 09:38

heavenlywild:

Can't beat time in the middle and making the SA bowlers more tired.

Plenty of time in the Test with no weather concerns

Declaration likely overnight and the game to finish tomorrow.

Yep, pitch and opposition dependent, it was the right call not to enforce follow on, despite split commentary suggesting otherwise.

The mistake I was referring to was much more minor, that inter over message from Will Young (12th) to the batsmen to start lifting run rate (despite having far more runs already than any team has chased down in 2500+ Tests in history), which saw Conway hole out (prob the player we most needed time in the middle, but he looked good prior), then Kane shortly after nearly the same exit as first innings but dropped, then Rachin came and went for not many. For me, when you have guys like Mitchell and Phillips who can muscle it without a sighter even on slow pitches like Bay Oval, would have made more sense to put them up the order for a quick 30 each etc. Not a mistake in strategy by Tim, just the players used felt clunky due to the slow pace of the pitch. OR, just let Conway and Kane bat for time (stumps).

I do remember couple of years ago when we didnt declare early enough, after a couple of days we all thought was headed for a draw, with the unlikely hero Santner saving the bacon haha, but that was the Basin and a higher quality team. This pitch is going to start turning sideways some time today, get Phillips on with his turn and sneakyness.

They do have quality batsmen still though, so if they can just partner up, NZ could be pushed for the win. Bedingham averages nearly 50 in a domestic FC of (higher quality than ours some would say). How he is only just being picked now is beyond me, he will go on to be a rock for Sa given the chance. Ruan is a very handy all rounder, avg 45 bat, 32 ball. They are chock full of batsmen who just need to take the step up to Test bowlers. Which is their weak link, no real weapons in the bowling (although they bowled blimmin well considering).

Should be a good opening session, fresh legs, new ball...... then 3 spinners on a pitch that really will start to turn this afternoon (if gets that far).

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3191724 7-Feb-2024 10:59

Overcast, I hope KJ gets on early, expecting some swing with a new cherry.

Edit: Yep, first ball from Southee shows his lovely shape.

Left hander he will prob go across for 5 balls and use his shape as an in swing to the lefty. Would be so nice to still have Boult in the Test squad.

Edit: Ugggh, I wish 3rd ump reviews had no "umpires call". I know its to help make a decision when the impacts are not more than half the ball. a real peach from Hens and a cracker take from Blundell.

No Umpires call on that "peach" from Southee, clean bowled the captain.

Edit: Now Hens nabs one, Sa 2 down so early....

heavenlywild

5059 posts

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#3191738 7-Feb-2024 11:29

SA have really done a massive disservice to their national men's team for the sake of their domestic T20 cricket.

Looks we are playing a first class side.

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TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3191748 7-Feb-2024 11:35

heavenlywild:

SA have really done a massive disservice to their national men's team for the sake of their domestic T20 cricket.

Looks we are playing a first class side.

Yep we pretty much are, everybody said this would happen. NZ has never beaten Sa in a Test series.

They have some great batsmen in the team, but 6 on debut and only 45 tests between the 11 was always going to be too big an ask no matter how much skill they have, only time in the middle of Test cricket can convert that talent.

I hope NZC can keep our players in future Test cricket, imo it gives skills needed for the other two formats. Clearly we also need to try to appease the players incomes. Its a tricky one to solve for the game as a whole.

Edit: Its getting time for Phillips to get a crack with the ball, his prodigious Off break turn will be hard to deal with as the pitch dies. He is selected as the spinner who can bat, imo a far better spin option than Rachin who was selected as the Batsman who can bowl a "bit" (similar to D Mitchells start). His stats are the best of the spinners in the team and even batting low down the order his batting stats are better than the other two spinners. On this wicket, who knows, he could clean up. He is a class act athlete, his fielding saves so many runs and excellent hands, the fastest player in the team and a real team player.

Edit: and here he is. Only Rigga mentioned him the whole test. I really like the balance of this team, I wish we could fit Will Young and Wagner into this eleven as well, but does give player rotation a lot easier. Things are really looking good for Black Caps future imo.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3192110 7-Feb-2024 20:21

Some real positives from the match. Rachin learnt how to bat in tests, learnt from the Jedi master Kane. although Id like to see him start scoring consistently. a double ton can win a game but needs to start getting more 50+, which I think in NZ he will do.

KJ looked so good back with the ball, getting his avg back below 20.

Santner creates pressure at the other end with his accuracy.

Whilst we didnt see it to full potential, the long batting lineup is a real win, boy Henry can tonk them at #10. Id like to see Phillips with more time and not just used as the run escalator. Perhaps Blundell back to a traditional #7 WK possie.

Next test I think Will Orourke might replace Santner. But vs aussies I will not be surprised to see Trent Boult back in the whites.

For Sa, Bedingham is a clear outright talent, would not be surprised to see him put on a big ton or double if he gets support, de Swardt is the guy for the job imo. They may need a shuffle, but with such a strong FC batting side, I just think its time under Test pressure that will see them convert so many good players in what is essentially Sa A side being asked to be Test winners immediately.

Bit more of a fan of Bay Oval now though, we need pitches slower and breaking up so we get better at the SEa tours. That light tower shadow across the pitch is a bit of an issue, I guess just another Testing condition.

Enjoyed every ball, but really looking forward to the aussies on our soil :-).

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3192271 8-Feb-2024 10:04

Will Young most likely to play in the 2nd Test against SA. Daryl Mitchell has an injured foot.

At least it gives Will Young some game time before the test series against Aus.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3192301 8-Feb-2024 10:33

Dochart: Will Young most likely to play in the 2nd Test against SA. Daryl Mitchell has an injured foot.

At least it gives Will Young some game time before the test series against Aus.

Interesting, how did he injure his foot?

If they select Will Young, Id assume he will slot into #5, but I think Rachin to #5 and Will to #4 makes some sense too.

The big shake up is going to be who do they drop for the outright seamer, which could be Orourke if they want to conserve Wagner for the aussie tests, unless they select Trent Boult out of left field ;-p. Id think given its not overly spin friendly it will be Santner with Phillips being a much better batting option and a better spin option over Rachin. Not that either may be needed with Wagners high output of overs.

Jamieson fastest NZ Test bowler to 50 wickets is back on track to become the fastest to 100, possibly over taking Sir R Hadlee (Wagner a close 2nd). Id expect he will get better with time back bowling post injury but just at his current rate it will be approx 23rd-24th Test. He should be even more impressive on the seam friendly Seddon Park pitch next match. Which hopefully gets him back to near best to play aussie who I think will be tested at the Basin but more especially the grassy picturesque Hagley oval. In saying that, they are world #1 and their bowlers have a lot to do with that so I hope Conway and Latham get into the runs in the next Sa match.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3192316 8-Feb-2024 10:53

No idea but he has had that injury since the 5th T20 against Pak.

I think they will keep Ravindra at No 4 and slot Will Young to No 5. No way they will be dropping either Latham or Conway for Young.

Jamieson might get dropped for O’Rourke due to Jamieson only coming back recently after his back injury and keeping him fit for the Aus Tests.

It will be interesting which allrounders/bowlers they will add and drop.

Do they keep both Phillips and Santner at No 7 and 8 or move Phillips to No 5 at the expense of Young and move Santner up to No 7.

I think this might be the XI for the 2nd Test against SA
1. Latham
2. Young
3. Williamson
4. Ravindra
5. Young
6. Blundell (wk)
7. Phillips/Santner
8. Jamieson/O’Rourke
9. Henry
10. Southee (c)
11. Wagner

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