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6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3192445 8-Feb-2024 13:49

Dochart: No idea but he has had that injury since the 5th T20 against Pak.

I think they will keep Ravindra at No 4 and slot Will Young to No 5. No way they will be dropping either Latham or Conway for Young.

Jamieson might get dropped for O’Rourke due to Jamieson only coming back recently after his back injury and keeping him fit for the Aus Tests.

It will be interesting which allrounders/bowlers they will add and drop.

Do they keep both Phillips and Santner at No 7 and 8 or move Phillips to No 5 at the expense of Young and move Santner up to No 7.

I think this might be the XI for the 2nd Test against SA
1. Latham
2. Young
3. Williamson
4. Ravindra
5. Young
6. Blundell (wk)
7. Phillips/Santner
8. Jamieson/O’Rourke
9. Henry
10. Southee (c)
11. Wagner

My understanding is they have settled on that top 7 (all being fit of course). So I dont see Phillips being dropped, hes consistent, he just needs to convert the next 50 to 100. But pretty hard when you are at 7 and being asked to start tonking it ball one haha, but hes got such good hand eye that it doesnt seem to bother him, but he does look better when given more time ie his 81 from memory was not so hectic. He can also make runs with his speed, which he often does. You could prob add another 10runs to his current mid 40s avg with the amount of runs he saves in the field. I would like to see him up the order though at #6 then #5, I think in time that will be the natural progression, especially with a Cam Fletcher or Max Chu types possibly replacing blundell when he retires. I think they both avg about 30 in FC. But Chu would be the long term replacement being early twenty something yo.

Id keep KJ playing to get match fit, not that he doesnt look it. It was quite a lengthy break due to it being the type which if not properly healed could keep repeating. I got the feeling they feel he has done an excellent job with the injury and conditioning.

Hard to drop Hens on a green top though, but his domestic team mate Orourke may well replace him next match.

But they may keep Wagner for aus and Orourke for this last Sa test. I do enjoy watching Henry bat, Im sure many would assume typical tail ender as they stride in and tonk, 6 runs, rinse and repeat.

Slowly you can see the succession occurring in the team. Sears could be the next bowler in, which would be nice to have some serious heat in the Test side.

all speculation/opinion of course, but the future beyond Kane does still look positive, even if not as successful, I dont see us dropping off the charts like the early 90s team post Hadlee and Crowe, we have more depth to call upon now.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3192458 8-Feb-2024 14:27

If we look in to the future bowling wise we should do ok. We have O’Rourke, Sears, Jamieson for pace bowlers for now. Also have Ravindra, G Phillips and Ashok as spin options. I think the biggest concern will be batting wise. Other than Ravindra, G Phillips and Mark Chapman who could probably play international cricket for at least 10 years or more if their form stays the same I don’t see any other young batters averaging at least 40 or more like Ravindra, Phillips and Chapamn in first class and list A cricket which is a bit concerning. The young batters that are coming in to the system all average around 30-35 in First class and list A cricket.

T20 wise I think batting and bowling will be fine in that area. Seen a few batting players perform well even though they are not part of the T20i side.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3192461 8-Feb-2024 14:49

Dochart: I think the biggest concern will be batting wise.

I would love to know who they have ear marked in youth cricket like they did Rachin. But I have faith young talent will come through.

I dont see the likes of Kane retiring any time very soon. So I think we have time to let a team organically evolve. But it was always on the cards with an aging team.

It might be a case of having to play long batting lineups until that few more youth top order batsmen come through. I have some faith this last ten to fourteen Golden years will have increased the depth of young tackers wanting to follow their idols etc.

We have always struggled and punched above our weight with such a small taletn pool ie 5 mill pop vs 90 mill let alone 1.42 billion whose national sport is cricket. Rather something for us to all feel proud of imo. But that is NZ and sport in general.

The unknown is always a worry hehe :-)

thermonuclear

601 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3192894 9-Feb-2024 15:06

Had a really great time at Bay Oval, been lucky enough to attend all five tests matches held in Mt Maunganui, this one was right up there with the win over England in 2019, admittedly against much weaker opposition on this occasion. Seeing Kane score two more centuries was obviously a real highlight, his form over the past 12 months has been incredible. Ravindra's double hundred set up the win, again something I won't soon forget.

Can's wait for the Basin Reserve match now, where NZ will be put to a proper test and measure against the Aussies. But, in the meantime, the side I'd like to see picked for the second outing against the South African dirt trackers

Latham (c)
Conway
Williamson
Young
Ravindra
Phillips
Blundell
Jamieson
Henry
Wagner
O'Rourke

Don't know if any of you had the opportunity to listen to the radio commentary but I thought the SENZ team were outstanding, particularly the colour/analysis guys in Jeremy Coney, John Bracewell and Ian Smith. Another benefit of attending test cricket live in NZ is listening to these former test cricketers break it all down.

As the test was drawing to it's inevitable conclusion, talk turned to the make-up of the NZ test side moving forward. I think there was a general consensus that Santner had done enough to please Stead and ensure selection, but also that Santner is not the best spinning option for the NZ test side. Bracewell was obviously very interesting to listen to on this subject, he admitted a strong bias in suggesting that Michael Bracewell (when fit) would offer more with the ball.

He also said that he believed that, of the spinners going around domestic cricket at the moment, he liked the looks of Tim Pringle as a prospect. I was disappointed that Santner got the lion's share of overs given to the spinners but acknowledge that he was the senior guy. Would have liked to see both Ravindra and Phillips given more of an opportunity though, but very hard to do when you have three spinners in the side.

In terms of pace, they all want to see O'Rourke given a run in the next test. They all appear to believe that Wagner may have already played his last test, and I fear they may be right on that. NZ have backed themselves into a corner by appointing Southee as test captain. Henry's average continues to improve and Jamieson looks like his trending back towards the form he had when he would seemingly grab five-fers at will.

Whenever I see Jamieson play, I am reminded of the fact he was on that tour to Australia in 2019 when we got hammered. What might have been if he had been unleashed on the world in that Boxing Day test at the MCG. If Boult is going to be available for the Aussie series as has been speculated, I'd be taking him, Henry and Jamieson in as the locked-in part of the seam attack. If four quicks are required then maybe Southee gets a look in, but I'd still prefer Sears or O'Rourke.

Anyway, just my thoughts for tearing down.

thermonuclear

601 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3192898 9-Feb-2024 15:14

Another benefit of radio commentary is listening to Coney spin a yarn. He is a wonderful after-dinner speaker, had the opportunity to see him at a supermarket industry event in Auckland back in my youth. This video is the conclusion of a much longer story he told about the test in Pakistan, SENZ should put the whole thing up from the start, it was hilarious

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3192903 9-Feb-2024 15:37

thermonuclear:

Latham (c)
Conway
Williamson
Young
Ravindra
Phillips
Blundell
Jamieson
Henry
Wagner
O'Rourke

Anyway, just my thoughts for tearing down.

Yeah thanks for that, a heck of a lot to ponder and unpack.

Firstly, I LOVE the Radio commentary, often in summer if we are going up north etc I will have it turned up to the dismay of my german passengers hehe. Especially Coney. They could be right on Wagner, time will tell, but we do have a strong bowling player pool pressing for the spots. Sears for me, is the type of fasty that is born for Test cricket, but he does need to get into the "Hadlee" method of putting that ball in the corridor of Chaos (top of 4th stump line and length and let the seam do the work) like Hens is doing, over and over, it is purely a case of time before one gets nicked, especially if the movement is marginal. Mind you when it comes back in off the deck LBW is also in play. I hope O'rourke can deliver the same. ive liked him in FC and T20. another genuine pace bowler Ive got my eye on is Matt Fisher, very young, needs to also learn the patience game, but he has speed, with his stature, reminds me a bit of Bond.

KJ is a law upon his own haha. That right hand inswing is insanely hard to keep out at yorker length as its unsigted largely. and the spitting cobra delivery off a good length, putting players on notice, hitting the handle etc and often breaking/hurting fingers imo he will mature into the leader of the pace team.

I can understand wanting Beastie in the squad, hes delivering and he is a handful. Him and Phillips are a pair. Santner does provide pressure for the quicks to exploit at the other end though. GP is delivering both bat and ball even with VERY limited opportunity. I really feel Blundell needs to go back to #7.

Ive gone pretty much the same teem but keeping Southee as he is in really good form (despite this test), hes back down from avg 31 to 29 and he can be very destructive to the top order, plus unlikely to break down. Sorry Wags :-)

Latham (c)
Conway
Williamson
Young
Ravindra
Phillips
Blundell
Jamieson
Henry
Southee
O'Rourkem

Thats still a heck of a team if we can get some time in the middle for Conway, Blundell, Young.

thermonuclear

601 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3194630 13-Feb-2024 12:00

Like the look of the side NZ have picked for this test. I'd prefer that Young bats above Ravindra and Phillips bats above Blundell, but we'll have to wait a while to see how they arrive at the crease.

Great to see O'Rourke and Wagner get a run also. From the little I've seen of O'Rourke, he has something about him, NZ needs to blood some young quicks with the age of the senior guys, this is a good call in my opinion.

With no Santner in the side it gives Ravindra and Phillips an opportunity to display their skills with the ball.

O'Rourke just collected his first wicket, nice one.

Wise

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TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3194635 13-Feb-2024 12:26

thermonuclear:

I'd prefer that Young bats above Ravindra and Phillips bats above Blundell

O'Rourke just collected his first wicket, nice one.

Interestingly Phillips FC and Test bowl avg is better than Santner, he was under bowled with no overs in the first innings first test then minimal the 2nd but after the left handers were already out which tells me Southee doesnt understand spin lol (jks).

You got the KJ rest right.

Wags is 37yo........ but happy to see him get a go. Id have tried Sears in either of these Sa tests.

O'rourke with only 15 FC matches and limited in the other two formats too, but to be fair hes avgn low 20s all 3 formats. I like him, with KJ you have two guys who bowl 140kph and can bump it up another 5 when needed. If Sears can get in there, it will be a more aussie like bowling squad, which might be testament to NZ changing the soil to harder, greener, faster on many of the pitches.

Yes, I agree re Phillips ahead of Blundell. He wont mind the challenge of limited overs to keep that avg in the mid 40s but usually your Bat WK is your book end. Im torn over Rachin/Young. I think they are trying to give Rachin a set spot as they see him as our future and he is very Ross Taylor like, but Young has had a bit of a hard deal all over the place, how good could he have been if kept at #4 all along. But Ross Taylor forced the hand somewhat too.

I woke up sad after yesterdays super bowl, but seeing some early wickets here is good. NZ just have to draw this one, much like the last opportunity to beat Sa in a series, but Sa won the second that time around. Cmon NZ.

Edit: oh my the inswinger from Wags is Boult-esque, how he didnt clean bowl the batsmen is "Unexplained ;-p)

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3194656 13-Feb-2024 13:05

NZ's session, but you would expect it on a green top.

However some of their best batsmen are in the middle order, Bedingham is the big wicket in the team imo.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3194700 13-Feb-2024 15:02

Was just about to say time for Phillips with his avg of 17 with the ball vs mid 40s for Rachin.

He is listed as the only genuine all rounder in the team but cant get a bowl.

anyway, Rachin strangled that wicket out via boredom by the batsman with the run rate tied down by him, putting pressure on at the other end.

That first wicket today should be given to Phillips, only he is athletic enough to pull off such a rip snorter catch. Get him in close now for Rachin.

Edit: Now another for Rachin, this will drop his avg to about 40 with the ball. Get GP on at the other end to really apply the pressure with a left hander out there. The first wicket was simply crazy batting, that one was a good delivery from Rachin, perfect zone.

Edit: If Rachin can just learn to very his pace he will be a lot more Santner like for NZ rather than the part timer he is considered at the moment. He is getting just enough turn off the grass, would love to see what GP will get away from the lefty and possibly through the gate to the right handers, get through the overs quick to the new ball and rest the quicks. But I dont think Southee has such thoughts.

Bedingham is clearly one of the best batsman in either team, looks more like Kane out their than a Mitchell type, FC avg of smidge under 50, you can see why so many in Sa were dismayed he has taken this long to be selected.

NZ's session yet again.

thermonuclear

601 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3194759 13-Feb-2024 15:58

Ravindra is definitely playing a blinder with the ball, as is Wagner who has looked his usual industrious self. I won't mention the seamer who's appeared least effective thus far, I know I'm believed to have an agenda where he is concerned.

Ravindra may have bored Hamza out, then again isn't that what Santner does for the most part? Rachin has been miserly and very accurate with his line and length, it's been impressive stuff. Remind me, is this the same Rachin Ravindra who played a blinder at the World Cup, then had to sit out a few months before they finally brought him into the test team?

I've been thinking about my earlier comment on dropping Ravindra one spot in the batting order. Having had a couple of sessions to ponder it, I've come around more to your view TeaLeaf. My main concern is that he might be a little loose to bat at four but then, as you say, Rosco was always pretty expansive in the position. Then you've got guys like Kohli.

The other things I like about Ravindra is that it moves Mitchell down to five where his batting average is something like 75, compared to his more recent efforts at four. It also splits up right-handers Williamson and Mitchell to potentially make it harder for opposition bowling attacks.

I'd still like to see Phillips at number six and Blundell at seven. That gives you two spinning options in the top six, plus seam-up from Mitchell, not that he seems to get much of a chance with the ball nowadays. With a make-up like that, you have the luxury of playing four seamers for 95% of your test matches.

Still would like Phillips to get a decent long spell with the ball to measure his credentials, but there's a long way to go in this match.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3194761 13-Feb-2024 16:10

thermonuclear:

Still would like Phillips to get a decent long spell with the ball to measure his credentials, but there's a long way to go in this match.

Same, especially with a left hander out there, its absurd to play GP and not bowl him as the senior spinner, Rachin is listed as Bat/Part time spin, GP is listed as THE all rounder, the only one in the team. Its Southee, his brain cant expand this much lol, or hes spiteful as his bowling teaters out (jks)

Rachin has taken 9 innings to get 7 wickets, GP has 9 wickets off only 3 innings at avg 17.88.

Not only is the team forgetting him, despite the fact they may still be only couple wickets down without that insane first catch, but the commentary raving on about the team were looking for a part time spinner in the top 6, but just ignoring Phillips entirely is in the team and should be #6. Grant Elliot sometimes does my head in. Sumo just acts the nice guy about anybody and everything. Rigga was the only one to question Phillips not getting a bowl in the first test until the few he got in the 2nd. Way to destroy a bowlers confidence NZC.

Edit: bahaha, now Rachin with another flukey wicket, I was wondering why they were all so keen. So on another day thats one wicket for Rachin and Bedingham goes on to score a ton. rofl

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3194774 13-Feb-2024 16:30

GP should be bowling to break this partnership up. Should also be batting at No 6 and move Blundell to No 7.

Why haven’t they decided to bowl GP yet?

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3194775 13-Feb-2024 16:32

Dochart: GP should be bowling to break this partnership up. Should also be batting at No 6 and move Blundell to No 7.

Why haven’t they decided to bowl GP yet?

Southee and Stead.

But Rachin gets another very very lucky wicket, poor Bedingham, that doesnt occur often, even Will Young who caught it off the shoe didnt think it was a catch rofl.

But the Lefty is still out there, give GP the flippn ball Tim, give the guy some confidence.

If Sa get to 250+ they are still well in this match.

Edit: Von Berg looks good. Handled Rachin with ease, which you would expect being a spinner himself. FC avg 30 over a very very long career.

Wags is swinging this old ball nicely. Keep him on for the inswing to the righty, away to lefty and GP for the lefty away and through the gate to the right. Perhaps after 5 overs each from Wags/Orourke, which will give him a few overs before the new ball.

thermonuclear

601 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3194778 13-Feb-2024 17:02

Who's this granddad von Berg? Is that his age on the back of his jersey, or his team number?

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