Israel Folau saga.

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#2263463 24-Jun-2019 15:01

tdgeek:

gzt:
surfisup1000: One can hardly say they have the right to free speech, if an employer can terminate your right to earn a living because of your individual religious views. Folaus rights to free speech have been well and truly bulldozed!

Imo you will find there is some clause in his well paid playing contract setting out his role as an ambassador for the values of the NRL.

Yes, these are the key words. Freedom to sign or not sign. Even when he abused this last year, he was reminded of his obligations. When you now look at everything, it all now makes so much more sense. He has shown himself to be a liar and a user, and greedy. This was orchestrated, from last year to now. Its not about money, I'll walk away, all lies. I feel that he felt his high public profile would insulate him. The other day he ranted the same evil in church, His church, that he and his family run. Did a media crew over hear it? Or were they invited, or were they fed the script? Its not really surprising how and why this all this happened now.

Simplistic.

Human rights law, vs employment law. I believe freedom of religion is a human right, and that will trump employment law.

tdgeek

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#2263466 24-Jun-2019 15:10

surfisup1000:

tdgeek:

He went beyond that, saying he quoted the Bible, which he did not. he stood up, in a high profile manner and conveyed I, Israel Folau representing Rugby Australia and all its sponsors decide that these people will all go to hell. Are employers not allowed rights? If an employee abuses their position as per the code of conduct with the contract? He breached the contract, knowingly, with full knowledge of what will happen. Everyone has rights, or do they not?

Most people you hire abide by the contract they sign. Otherwise its in breach

You should really get your facts right. You clearly didn't even read the tweet!!

Firstly, he makes no assertion that he represents the views of Rugby Australia.

And, the tweet in question directly quotes the bible, Galatians 5:19‭-‬21 KJV ... how on earth can you argue otherwise, when it is right there in the tweet!!

This tweet also targets drunks, atheists, idolaters, amongst others. I'm offended that rugby australia hasn't recognised my right to be offended! Why is it that only the homosexuals are allowed to be offended?

This is a case of people seeking offence.

I bet Folau will win his case. Proving myself right, and you wrong. Lets meet back after the case concludes and the one who is wrong can apologise to the other :) You'd better prepare it now.

Firstly, he makes no assertion that he represents the views of Rugby Australia. By virtue of his public notoriety, he obviously does represent his employer. Those in public have a much higher bar. Are you saying that an employee can never bring an employer into disrepute? This means they have no rights. There cannot be a code of conduct clause.

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#2263467 24-Jun-2019 15:10

surfisup1000:

tdgeek:

gzt:
surfisup1000: One can hardly say they have the right to free speech, if an employer can terminate your right to earn a living because of your individual religious views. Folaus rights to free speech have been well and truly bulldozed!

Imo you will find there is some clause in his well paid playing contract setting out his role as an ambassador for the values of the NRL.

Yes, these are the key words. Freedom to sign or not sign. Even when he abused this last year, he was reminded of his obligations. When you now look at everything, it all now makes so much more sense. He has shown himself to be a liar and a user, and greedy. This was orchestrated, from last year to now. Its not about money, I'll walk away, all lies. I feel that he felt his high public profile would insulate him. The other day he ranted the same evil in church, His church, that he and his family run. Did a media crew over hear it? Or were they invited, or were they fed the script? Its not really surprising how and why this all this happened now.

Simplistic.

Human rights law, vs employment law. I believe freedom of religion is a human right, and that will trump employment law.

His right of freedom of speech has not been impinged upon and still have not been. If he wanted to avail himself of that he should have resigned his position before hand as he was well aware of his legal obligations with regards to his contact with RA.

surfisup1000

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#2263469 24-Jun-2019 15:12

MikeB4:

I was not stating he was making political statements, that was purely an example. It is common in contracts for high profile positions such as international sports representatives that they are limited in what they can say and cannot bring his employers in disrepute. He would have been aware of that when he freely signed the employment contract and received payments. He had also been very clearly warned and appraised of his obligations under that agreement. His rights have not been infringed.

This is your problem, you are quoting employment law, Folau will be quoting human rights law. I think Folaus rights to express his religious views will be stronger than the employers rights to control his outspoken religious views.

tdgeek

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#2263471 24-Jun-2019 15:12

The GoFundMe got a lot of support for Folau. A LOT of support. His extremist views do appear to have a lot of support. A lot of money in quick time.

Sadly, Discrimination is alive and well

JaseNZ

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#2263473 24-Jun-2019 15:13

Was is exact obligations under his employment contact divulged ??

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mm1352000

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#2263474 24-Jun-2019 15:17

ShinyChrome: My problem with the free speech argument is when it is used to somehow make hate speech OK because FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

Assuming you accept the previous assertions that Folau was quoting the bible, the implication of what you're saying is that the bible contains hate speech. Seems to me there is a fundamental conflict in values if a society is going to allow freedom of religion and disallow hate speech.

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MikeB4

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#2263475 24-Jun-2019 15:18

surfisup1000:

MikeB4:

I was not stating he was making political statements, that was purely an example. It is common in contracts for high profile positions such as international sports representatives that they are limited in what they can say and cannot bring his employers in disrepute. He would have been aware of that when he freely signed the employment contract and received payments. He had also been very clearly warned and appraised of his obligations under that agreement. His rights have not been infringed.

This is your problem, you are quoting employment law, Folau will be quoting human rights law. I think Folaus rights to express his religious views will be stronger than the employers rights to control his outspoken religious views.

Its not my problem at all.

OK another example when I was employed in government if I had decided to run for parliament I would be required to resign or take leave of absence. I was required to be a-political and loyal to the government of the day. That was not in any way contrary to political freedoms it was a requirement of public service employment.

If Folau no longer wished to abide the conditions of his employment contract he should have either renegotiated it or resigned.

surfisup1000

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#2263477 24-Jun-2019 15:21

MikeB4:

His right of freedom of speech has not been impinged upon and still have not been. If he wanted to avail himself of that he should have resigned his position before hand as he was well aware of his legal obligations with regards to his contact with RA.

He has had his means of making a living taken away from him, just because he quoted from the bible.

That is clearly an attempt to suppress his rights to free speech.

If Folau had gone and physically hurt someone, stolen property or committed some other crime, then, I'd entirely agree that he should be sacked.

I hope you never hired any muslims, their views on homosexuality are far more extreme! Are you even allowed to ask that in an employment interview?

Just about all religions are nasty affairs. But, you have to let people practice them.

surfisup1000

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#2263479 24-Jun-2019 15:24

MikeB4:

Its not my problem at all.

OK another example when I was employed in government if I had decided to run for parliament I would be required to resign or take leave of absence. I was required to be a-political and loyal to the government of the day. That was not in any way contrary to political freedoms it was a requirement of public service employment.

If Folau no longer wished to abide the conditions of his employment contract he should have either renegotiated it or resigned.

Question: do you believe one can waive their human rights in an employment contract?

MikeB4

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#2263481 24-Jun-2019 15:25

surfisup1000:

MikeB4:

His right of freedom of speech has not been impinged upon and still have not been. If he wanted to avail himself of that he should have resigned his position before hand as he was well aware of his legal obligations with regards to his contact with RA.

He has had his means of making a living taken away from him, just because he quoted from the bible.

That is clearly an attempt to suppress his rights to free speech.

If Folau had gone and physically hurt someone, stolen property or committed some other crime, then, I'd entirely agree that he should be sacked.

I hope you never hired any muslims, their views on homosexuality are far more extreme! Are you even allowed to ask that in an employment interview?

Just about all religions are nasty affairs. But, you have to let people practice them.

You have to accept that freedom of speech does not exceed all other legal requirements. Here is an example, if the management of this Forum chose to delete the views expressed in this thread are they breaching freedom of speech right? answer, no they are not.

surfisup1000

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#2263482 24-Jun-2019 15:25

tdgeek:

The GoFundMe got a lot of support for Folau. A LOT of support. His extremist views do appear to have a lot of support. A lot of money in quick time.

Sadly, Discrimination is alive and well

So which religions do you tolerate?

JaseNZ

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#2263490 24-Jun-2019 15:28

@MikeB4 , have you changed your avatar lately or is it just me, Quite like that one.

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding : Ice cream man , Ice cream man

tdgeek

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#2263492 24-Jun-2019 15:31

https://www.scmp.com/sport/rugby/article/3005717/israel-folau-posts-homophobic-social-media-status-calling-lgbt

He quoted the Bible. So? He could have quoted the Bible and left it at that. Did he need to go after graphics, bolded and mean words to add his own theme? His own words. BIG AND BRIGHT. Are the Bible quotes not enough? So he wants to add his personal touch. Its patently clear he is on a mission, and that it is all intentional and planned. No morals whatsoever. Now he wants to be paid, BTW the money is a gift, I can spend it how I want, and its not a lie, its terms of my web begging.

MikeB4

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#2263494 24-Jun-2019 15:33

JaseNZ:

@MikeB4 , have you changed your avatar lately or is it just me, Quite like that one.

It symbolises inclusiveness

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