Israel Folau saga.

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5288 posts

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#2263525 24-Jun-2019 16:06

Handle9:

surfisup1000:

Handle9:

Do you have any evidence for your opinion or are you just making it up?

Not opinion. Folau has stated he is taking Rugby australia to court. So, usually a court does decide on cases.

Ignoring your trolling, it appears you don't have any legal evidence for your opinion that his rights have been impinged?

You were very ambiguous.

It is an odd question though. I don't think there is a law in Australia that prohibits one from preaching their religion.

decibel

315 posts

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#2263527 24-Jun-2019 16:10

Handle9:

.... Men are not free to sell our daughters as slaves anymore....

?? where did you get this from ??

Handle9

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#2263528 24-Jun-2019 16:11

decibel:

Handle9:

.... Men are not free to sell our daughters as slaves anymore....

?? where did you get this from ??

Exodus 21:7

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+21%3A7-11&version=ESV

surfisup1000

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#2263532 24-Jun-2019 16:18

OK, to sum up as this could go forever. . .

I don't think Folau should have said what he did. His views are antiquated and irrelevant. As is hardcore christianity.

People who really want to take offence, the idolaters, the fornicators, the drunks, the homosexuals etc... it seems he targeted 95% of the population .... should take a look at themselves rather than Folau. There are millions of Folaus out there, learn to ignore them as brainwashed or idiots or whatever.

But, I think he had the right to express personal religious views without being sacked.

If anything , it'll be an interesting court case.

Handle9

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#2263533 24-Jun-2019 16:19

mm1352000:

I agree on all of your points. However, I'm interested in the bounds of freedom of religion rather than freedom of speech.

To clarify, it seems like what you're saying is that freedom of religion equates to the right for people to [internally] hold whatever beliefs they like. However, public expression of those beliefs is subject to consequences, in the same way as with freedom of speech.

Have I understood you correctly?

IANAL but all the reading that I have done suggests that in Australia freedom of religion is limited to government interference with religious observance and discrimination based on religion.

In this case Rugby Australia isn't terminating his contract because of his religion. They genuinely don't care. Many players post on social media about their religion, draw crosses on wrist bands, talk about Allah and point to god when they score a try. None of them have been disciplined.

They are terminating his contract because he's being wilfully offensive to a specific group of people. When instructed to stop he's refused. He's also been told previously that he needs to behave in a way that is respectful of others and the code of conduct supports this.

surfisup1000

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#2263539 24-Jun-2019 16:41

https://www.noted.co.nz/currently/social-issues/israel-folau-controversy-what-we-must-learn/

Good article, contrasts how Folau handles his religous views versus Sonny bill Williams. Folau needs to grow up.

blackjack17

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#2263540 24-Jun-2019 16:47

decibel:

Handle9:

.... Men are not free to sell our daughters as slaves anymore....

?? where did you get this from ??

I think he was questioning the bolded. When did this change?

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tyronne

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#2263544 24-Jun-2019 17:11

"Six days work shall be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death."

-Exodus 35:2

Since we are taking everything literally, I've got some bad news for Israel....

Handle9

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#2263549 24-Jun-2019 17:24

blackjack17:

decibel:

Handle9:

.... Men are not free to sell our daughters as slaves anymore....

?? where did you get this from ??

I think he was questioning the bolded. When did this change?

Dunno, it wasn't last week, neither was homosexual law reform.

It was an example of biblical scripture that makes no sense and is illegal in a modern society. Just because something is in the bible doesn't mean it's acceptable.

xpd

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#2263562 24-Jun-2019 18:12

OK, wife filled me in along with TV3 news.... dosent deserve any help, he ****** up, end of story. Go sign a new contract elsewhere and move on.

Gavin / xpd / FastRaccoon / Geek of Coastguard New Zealand

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#2263567 24-Jun-2019 18:20

surfisup1000:

https://www.noted.co.nz/currently/social-issues/israel-folau-controversy-what-we-must-learn/

Good article, contrasts how Folau handles his religous views versus Sonny bill Williams. Folau needs to grow up.

Yeah he does. Unfortunately he seems totally controlled by his father.

The key point that the article missed that this incident is a repeat of last year. Qantas and a number of other sponsors were set to walk last year and if Folau hadn't gone this time probably would have.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12229592

alasta

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#2263570 24-Jun-2019 18:35

I am assuming his contract has some vague clause around him not being allowed to cause offence.

The problem is that was he said wasn't actually offensive because he wasn't expressing any malice towards liars, homosexuals, thieves, drunks, etc. He was merely expressing a genuinely held belief that, for reasons outside of his control, god will ultimately punish them. It may seem absurd to some, but in his mind he was trying to help people.

Rikkitic

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#2263595 24-Jun-2019 19:27

There is a reason that certain groups, like gays and Muslims, have special anti-discrimination protections that drunks and idolaters do not. We saw recently in Christchurch what can happen to those who worship a different god. In Britain two lesbian ladies were bashed up the other day by some thugs who probably would applaud Folau's stance. Not so very long ago gay men were being attacked and rolled off cliffs to their death in Sydney by people who thought they had some special moral right to commit murder because their victims were somehow 'degenerate'. Some have been castrated in America by good old boys who also thought they were undeserving of basic human rights.

When public figures like Folau spout off about gays going to hell, they legitimise those who are looking for excuses to abuse people they don't approve of. His free speech rights end where others seize on his irresponsible blather to justify doing harm to people they don't like. He can believe whatever he wants to. But he can't preach hate. Doing so has consequences and those supersede any so-called religious freedom. He is a bigoted jerk and needs to get over himself.

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GeekGuy

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#2263626 24-Jun-2019 20:18

I see he has sold his Lamborghini recently.

He should sell some of his properties as well to fund his legal bills instead of relying on financial support.

Kiwifruta

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#2263644 24-Jun-2019 21:37

Rikkitic:
There is a reason that certain groups, like gays and Muslims, have special anti-discrimination protections that drunks and idolaters do not. We saw recently in Christchurch what can happen to those who worship a different god. In Britain two lesbian ladies were bashed up the other day by some thugs who probably would applaud Folau's stance. Not so very long ago gay men were being attacked and rolled off cliffs to their death in Sydney by people who thought they had some special moral right to commit murder because their victims were somehow 'degenerate'. Some have been castrated in America by good old boys who also thought they were undeserving of basic human rights.

When public figures like Folau spout off about gays going to hell, they legitimise those who are looking for excuses to abuse people they don't approve of. His free speech rights end where others seize on his irresponsible blather to justify doing harm to people they don't like. He can believe whatever he wants to. But he can't preach hate. Doing so has consequences and those supersede any so-called religious freedom. He is a bigoted jerk and needs to get over himself.

He is not a bigoted jerk. He has shared his own weaknesses (womanising) that he needed to repent of. His message was a message of warning and hope. By repenting and through the atonement of Jesus Christ there is hope for a heavenly reward. Where is the hate in that?

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