Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

Forums › Sports › Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

1 | ... | 689 | 690 | 691 | 692 | 693 | 694 | 695 | 696

768 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 245

#3505611 23-Jun-2026 18:33

networkn:

I don't think he's a bad player, but if you think of centers in NZ right now, his name is far further down the list than many others.

Serious question. Apart from Tavatavanawai, who else?

Earbanean

1199 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 405

#3505647 23-Jun-2026 20:53

networkn:

How many times has ALB been mentioned for his outstanding contributions to the Chiefs/Other teams in the last 2-3 years? A few years ago, he was the name on everyones lips. Since then he is barely mentioned (though there have been some games, including 1-2 tests where he has been pretty good). There are a lot of names mentioned in the centers far more frequently. Japanese Rugby is a far different beast to super rugby, yet he is pretty much off a plane and into the AB's. I've seen complaints about this here previously.

I don't think he's a bad player, but if you think of centers in NZ right now, his name is far further down the list than many others.

Maybe you don't understand the word "form". Talking about the last 2-3 years is not "form". Actually the opposite. His recent form is in Japan and you haven't seen any of it, so you were clearly making stuff up. Further, if you don't think Japan counts, then you must be outraged that Savea is not only "off a plane and into the AB's" - but is captain of said team. Oh and I can't imagine what you must think about the fuss over Mo'unga who has been playing there for years.

The reality is you don't like Rennie and ALB and (yet again) you posted an off the top of your head opinion without any facts to back it up. That seems to be happening a bit. As I've said heaps, unlike banter down at the pub, on GZ we might expect the opinions to be founded in some sort of facts or figures.

Queue insulting me again, rather than actually admitting you made a mistake...

networkn

Networkn
33111 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15684

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3505653 23-Jun-2026 21:45

Earbanean:

Queue insulting me again, rather than actually admitting you made a mistake...

The irony of this comment..

networkn

Networkn
33111 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15684

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3505655 23-Jun-2026 21:57

I don't like Rennie. I've explained why. So far since he's got back, he's claimed we have an embarrassment of riches at 10, hired the guy in charge of the team in super rugby with the worst defence in history as our defence coach (as much as I love Tana).

I have zero issue with ALB I even had good things to say about him and stated I don't have an issue with him.

I explained my issues, you don't like them, guess what? Tough.

Earbanean

1199 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 405

#3505685 24-Jun-2026 07:54

networkn:

Earbanean:

Queue insulting me again, rather than actually admitting you made a mistake...

The irony of this comment..

Fair point.

Earbanean

1199 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 405

#3505686 24-Jun-2026 08:00

networkn:

I explained my issues, you don't like them, guess what? Tough.

I've got no problem with opinions about anything or anyone rugby related. That's the essence of sports banter. I think the issue is you're very often stating your opinions as if they're facts, when they're not and are often demonstrably incorrect.

Mighty Ape

Shop now at Mighty Ape (affiliate link).

OnceBitten

580 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 14

#3505688 24-Jun-2026 08:29

networkn:

I don't like Rennie. I've explained why. So far since he's got back, he's claimed we have an embarrassment of riches at 10, hired the guy in charge of the team in super rugby with the worst defence in history as our defence coach (as much as I love Tana).

I have zero issue with ALB I even had good things to say about him and stated I don't have an issue with him.

I explained my issues, you don't like them, guess what? Tough.

IMO Rennie should have got the job instead of Foster.... but the NZRFU took too long and by the time they were ready to appont a new AB's coach, Rennie was gone.... but in the end Foster was actually pretty good... he was treated poorly by the NZRFU in his last year though.

How Rennie performs remains to be seen, but we should all give him a chance before writing him off

networkn

Networkn
33111 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15684

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3505694 24-Jun-2026 08:57

OnceBitten:

IMO Rennie should have got the job instead of Foster.... but the NZRFU took too long and by the time they were ready to appont a new AB's coach, Rennie was gone.... but in the end Foster was actually pretty good... he was treated poorly by the NZRFU in his last year though.

How Rennie performs remains to be seen, but we should all give him a chance before writing him off

100% disagree with Rennie over Foster. Foster knew the team, was involved in it's long prior success and Steve Hansen, likely our best ever Rugby Coach said he was the right guy for the job. He was loved by the players.

He wasn't treated badly in his last year, he was treat attrociously even before he took the reigns. People shouldn't need to be accompanied by bodyguards for doing their job. They shouldn't be spat at, or threatened or abused. NZR were a disgrace throughout his tenure, and that continued into Robertsons era, ala the handling of Scott Robertsons departure. Whether it was the right decision or not, remains to be seen, but the way it was handled, falls well and truly short of 'what a reasonable employer would do'.

Many people couldn't handle the fact Foster been unsuccesful with the Chiefs and held it against him his entire career. He proved them wrong, and to their credit, many people have eaten some humble pie as a result. Many though, still can't see past it.

As for giving him a chance before writing him off? The way so many did for Foster or Robertson? People are going to have opinions. I've expoused mine and hope to be proven wrong.

networkn

Networkn
33111 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15684

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3505696 24-Jun-2026 09:01

Earbanean:

I've got no problem with opinions about anything or anyone rugby related. That's the essence of sports banter. I think the issue is you're very often stating your opinions as if they're facts, when they're not and are often demonstrably incorrect.

You are super quick to declare the 'problem' everyone else has. It's annoying to me you can't see you doing the same exact things, and also being very selective on whom you call out for such things.

You keep saying you don't have a problem with peoples opinions, but the way you respond to those is well out of step with those statements.

Perhaps before policing other peoples conduct, you should make sure your own is in line.

We could all do better in the 'agree to disagree' category.

Earbanean

1199 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 405

#3505747 24-Jun-2026 09:32

OnceBitten:

IMO Rennie should have got the job instead of Foster.... but the NZRFU took too long and by the time they were ready to appont a new AB's coach, Rennie was gone.... but in the end Foster was actually pretty good... he was treated poorly by the NZRFU in his last year though.

How Rennie performs remains to be seen, but we should all give him a chance before writing him off

Yeah agreed. I'm pretty sure I remember Graham Henry commenting that he thought we were crazy to let Rennie go back then, when he thought Rennie was clearly the best candidate. It seemed at the time, continuity from within an existing team was the priority - and that had worked well from Henry to Hansen. Anyway, thankfully Rennie now gets his shot. I guess in an ideal world that would be for a 4 year run into the World Cup, but it is what it is.

networkn

Networkn
33111 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15684

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3505752 24-Jun-2026 10:21

Earbanean:

Yeah agreed. I'm pretty sure I remember Graham Henry commenting that he thought we were crazy to let Rennie go back then, when he thought Rennie was clearly the best candidate. It seemed at the time, continuity from within an existing team was the priority - and that had worked well from Henry to Hansen. Anyway, thankfully Rennie now gets his shot. I guess in an ideal world that would be for a 4 year run into the World Cup, but it is what it is.

He's on a hiding to nothing IMO, but it's a double edged sword.

No matter how badly he does, I predict people will explain it away as 'he didn't have a full chance to get the team ready', or many other potential excuses, when in reality, that was a choice he made, and knew about, applying for the job. NZR fired Robertson because they believed we weren't heading in the right direction. If we don't do well under Rennie, we won't have improved that situation. At the other end of the cycle, if he does badly, do you risk him for another 4 years? I'd suggest not, but I imagine many people will argue for him to continue. Probably the same people who argue that despite abysmal record with the Wallabies, that he was the right guy for the job and 'needed more time'. ARU fired him because the team 'wasn't heading in the right direction'.

As much as I don't like Rennie, if he does well, I'd be ok with him staying, even beyond 2027, I *want* him to prove me wrong.

IMO NZR screwed up. They should have supported Robertson and potentially changed the structure of the management in the team. Firing a coach with a 74% win rate without a really strong candidate ready to take over is the definition of insanity. Neither of the two potential record had a better record than Robertson. Robertson clearly had a number of things wrong, and obviously needed some help. I am not defending his errors, more pointing out, that Robertson wasn't given a chance to present a plan to correct the issues highlighted in the end of year review.

Samsung

Shop now on Samsung phones, tablets, TVs and more (affiliate link).

OnceBitten

580 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 14

#3505753 24-Jun-2026 10:21

networkn:

100% disagree with Rennie over Foster. Foster knew the team, was involved in it's long prior success and Steve Hansen, likely our best ever Rugby Coach said he was the right guy for the job. He was loved by the players.

He wasn't treated badly in his last year, he was treat attrociously even before he took the reigns. People shouldn't need to be accompanied by bodyguards for doing their job. They shouldn't be spat at, or threatened or abused. NZR were a disgrace throughout his tenure, and that continued into Robertsons era, ala the handling of Scott Robertsons departure. Whether it was the right decision or not, remains to be seen, but the way it was handled, falls well and truly short of 'what a reasonable employer would do'.

Many people couldn't handle the fact Foster been unsuccesful with the Chiefs and held it against him his entire career. He proved them wrong, and to their credit, many people have eaten some humble pie as a result. Many though, still can't see past it.

As for giving him a chance before writing him off? The way so many did for Foster or Robertson? People are going to have opinions. I've expoused mine and hope to be proven wrong.

The problem is we - the NZ rugby watching public, are used to the AB's winning almost every game they play, so when the AB's lost the series here against Ireland, the public were baying for blood and ultimately put the blame on Foster... no one came out and said the AB's were simply beaten by a better team - which was exactly the case

The NZRFU didn't publicly back Foster and he went to SA with the AB's not knowing if he'd have a job the next week....lucky for him AB's had a good win.... but then before the RWC they announced they were taking applications for the AB's coach... the fact they did this meant Foster knew his time was up and decided not to re-apply

I don't know exactly what happened with Robertson, but it appears several senior players didn't like his coaching style...

If the Rennie coached AB's retain the Bledisloe cup and win at least 3 of the tests in SA, then many will say that Rennie was the right choice... but that remains to be seen

Earbanean

1199 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 405

#3505775 24-Jun-2026 11:34

networkn:

IMO NZR screwed up. They should have supported Robertson and potentially changed the structure of the management in the team. Firing a coach with a 74% win rate without a really strong candidate ready to take over is the definition of insanity. Neither of the two potential record had a better record than Robertson. Robertson clearly had a number of things wrong, and obviously needed some help. I am not defending his errors, more pointing out, that Robertson wasn't given a chance to present a plan to correct the issues highlighted in the end of year review.

I'm loving the "IMO ..." Just kidding. Yeah, who knows, you might be right about it being better to work with him. However, because we don't have the counter factual, we'll never know whether it was better to cut him or work with him. Mark Robinson had been terrible and a big part of that was the endless dithering and undermining Foster. Kirk, rightly or wrongly, went for the opposite approach of acting very decisively. As I say, we'll never know if that was the right call or not. Personally I don't agree that there weren't any strong candidates ready to take over, but that's hugely subjective.

My view has always being that once the decision has been made (for Foster, or Razor, or Rennie), then even if I didn't agree with it, I move on from that decision and back the coach (and the team) to the hilt going forward. Same goes for captain pick etc. We have so much great footy in front of us, surely we can draw a line under the Razor/Rennie change and move on?

Earbanean

1199 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 405

#3505776 24-Jun-2026 11:36

OnceBitten:

If the Rennie coached AB's retain the Bledisloe cup and win at least 3 of the tests in SA, then many will say that Rennie was the right choice... but that remains to be seen

Given we only have 3 tests in SA, that's a pretty big hurdle for Rennie and the team. Even including the Baltimore test, that's 3 out of 4 against the Boks, which is a huge ask.

networkn

Networkn
33111 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15684

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3505777 24-Jun-2026 11:43

OnceBitten:

The problem is we - the NZ rugby watching public, are used to the AB's winning almost every game they play, so when the AB's lost the series here against Ireland, the public were baying for blood and ultimately put the blame on Foster... no one came out and said the AB's were simply beaten by a better team - which was exactly the case

Actually, some people DID actually say we were beaten by a better team, that the world had caught up to us, that other teams had unicorn players, and that the playing field was more level than it had ever been. We were shouted down amongst the Foster hate.

The NZRFU didn't publicly back Foster and he went to SA with the AB's not knowing if he'd have a job the next week....lucky for him AB's had a good win.... but then before the RWC they announced they were taking applications for the AB's coach... the fact they did this meant Foster knew his time was up and decided not to re-apply

There isn't a coach in the world who you could guarantee gets their team beyond the first QF. Knockout Rugby is somewhat of a lottery. Foster got us as close to a RWC win as it was possible to get. As much as I like Robertson and think he did great things at the Crusaders, I felt ultimately, it would require some luck to do the same or better than Foster.

I don't know exactly what happened with Robertson, but it appears several senior players didn't like his coaching style...

If the Rennie coached AB's retain the Bledisloe cup and win at least 3 of the tests in SA, then many will say that Rennie was the right choice... but that remains to be seen

My opinion on what happened to Robertson, is that the pressure overwhelmed him, the anxiety was too much. There were lots of signs of it. It dereailed his original plan. The NZ Public won't tolerate losses, so he was needing to innovate and take risks that always paid off.

Anxiety can be crippling (I speak from some experience), and changes the way you behave, react, interact and cope. People who knew Robertson said they couldn't recognise him. In all his prior gigs he was pretty much universally lauded for his man management skills, effective (but unique) way of communicating and his tactical nous. For whatever reason, he wasn't able to translate that into the AB's environment. Where if there had been discord in his team in the past, he may have confronted and dealt with that effectively, for some reason he wasn't able to or willing to do that. NZR didn't give him a chance, the outcome of the performance review was a predetermined outcome. That is not how a reasonable employer acts, but NZR has awful form in this regard (Foster being the next most obvious example).

I agree that if Rennie can retain the Bled, that would be a good start. Winning 100% of the tests in SA (not all games are test matches), is probably unrealistic. Minimum of 1 would be acceptable, 2 would be excellent and 3 would be historic. I'd feel like the more realistic thing is 1 Win, 1 Loss and 1 close loss would be the least it would take to feel like Rennie wasn't the 'wrong' choice. I believe Robertson would have achieved that.

My fear is we lose the Bled (probably not likely based on AU Super Rugby Form), all 3 tests in SA (two of them 'badly') and we only just scrape past Italy in Wellington. Under that, I'd consider Rennies appointment an awful decision.

1 | ... | 689 | 690 | 691 | 692 | 693 | 694 | 695 | 696