Golf - Why is there a drama over DeChambeau winning?

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tdgeek

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#277018 22-Sep-2020 07:36

Well, cos he is a LONG hitter but thats rubbish. Golf thinks that due to him, and its been discussed before, that long hitters need to be reined in

In the US Open, he isnt the longest hitter he was 3rd, behind I think DJ and Rory. 3rd in the Open was Louis Oosthiuzen, a small to medium framed, short golfer

I think too many have made way too much of DeChambeau, he has achieved what he has due to his overall game. No, he isnt winning as he drives 425 metres and the rest of his game is average. Disappointed with Rory's comments, "I'm not sure if its good or bad for the game" His interview was tantamount to saying its not fair.

Thoughts?

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#2571672 22-Sep-2020 07:44

If Rory thinks that's what it's all about it's up to him to train harder to improve his range. Long story short though, he's wrong and bitter.

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#2571675 22-Sep-2020 07:53

Very much so. Its not about the protein shakes, but the hype over this is based on that. A while back they were saying if DeC can sort his short game he'd be great, he has. His putting is excellent as well. Matthew Woolf outdrove him at times as well. MW is going to be a star

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#2571689 22-Sep-2020 08:03

Bit of trivia I watched on the post game interviews. Bryson's putter is more lofted than his driver. Putter is 6 degrees, the driver 5.5!

Handsomedan

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#2571778 22-Sep-2020 09:25

I think the same was spouted in Tennis when the bigger and more powerful women started appearing on the scene and serving like men.

Also when men started firing unplayable serves at such high speeds.

Games evolve - people need to get over it.

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BlinkyBill

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#2571792 22-Sep-2020 09:37

Because there is no art to his game.

It is a mechanically programmed swing, designed for one thing - power. No ability to shape the ball to the conditions. It’s not just off the tee, he can do it out of even quite long rough.

It is Soviet-era golf, and who wants to live in Russia in the 60’s?

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#2571801 22-Sep-2020 09:49

BlinkyBill:

Because there is no art to his game.

It is a mechanically programmed swing, designed for one thing - power. No ability to shape the ball to the conditions. It’s not just off the tee, he can do it out of even quite long rough.

It is Soviet-era golf, and who wants to live in Russia in the 60’s?

Thats the thing you think its all brute force. The post match stuff showed plenty of delicate feel. Everyone focus on body weight gain and protein shakes but he's worked on all his game. His swing is the same as everyone elses, except he has focussed on being as repeatable as possible. Thats not something only he is allowed to do. He was hooking it, on Day 3 I think, worked out why (bent lead elbow), fixed that and went better. Thats a true sportsman

Power? Yes he has power, he is not the longest driver, blame DJ and Rory on that

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#2571922 22-Sep-2020 12:10

BlinkyBill:
Because there is no art to his game.

It is a mechanically programmed swing, designed for one thing - power. No ability to shape the ball to the conditions. It’s not just off the tee, he can do it out of even quite long rough.

It is Soviet-era golf, and who wants to live in Russia in the 60’s?

19th in driving distance, 8th in greens in regulation and 3rd in scrambling.
More than power to his game.

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#2571945 22-Sep-2020 12:52

tdgeek:

BlinkyBill:

Because there is no art to his game.

It is a mechanically programmed swing, designed for one thing - power. No ability to shape the ball to the conditions. It’s not just off the tee, he can do it out of even quite long rough.

It is Soviet-era golf, and who wants to live in Russia in the 60’s?

Thats the thing you think its all brute force. The post match stuff showed plenty of delicate feel. Everyone focus on body weight gain and protein shakes but he's worked on all his game. His swing is the same as everyone elses, except he has focussed on being as repeatable as possible. Thats not something only he is allowed to do. He was hooking it, on Day 3 I think, worked out why (bent lead elbow), fixed that and went better. Thats a true sportsman

Power? Yes he has power, he is not the longest driver, blame DJ and Rory on that

His swing is ugly af, and he can’t shape the ball. He’s a very good player, as any US Open winner is, but his swing is one no-one else has and probably no-one else wants. His swing is designed to hit it straight and long, and that’s all he has with anything from driver to about an 8. Like any US Open winner or even entrant, he has a great short game, but at that level, it’s nothing special.

while I’m on it, he’s bloody slow, and I understand he plays very slow on purpose to upset his playing partner.

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#2571955 22-Sep-2020 12:57

What's the long term survival of the big hitters? I have no interest in golf but have noted Tiger Woods having quite a few problems with his back.

tdgeek

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#2571987 22-Sep-2020 13:23

BlinkyBill:

His swing is ugly af, and he can’t shape the ball. He’s a very good player, as any US Open winner is, but his swing is one no-one else has and probably no-one else wants. His swing is designed to hit it straight and long, and that’s all he has with anything from driver to about an 8. Like any US Open winner or even entrant, he has a great short game, but at that level, it’s nothing special.

while I’m on it, he’s bloody slow, and I understand he plays very slow on purpose to upset his playing partner.

His swing is just a swing, yes his setup looks odd, but his swing is quite normal, wide and fast. Doesnt want as much lag which is odd, but its just his swing. Furyk and Woolf dont exactly have artist swings either

Does he shape much? No. Can he, I assume he can, altho some pros can only go one way. I dont see it matters

"and that’s all he has with anything from driver to about an 8" But he isnt the longest, DJ and Rory are, and others. Woolf is right up there and beating DeC at times

Again this is going over the top based on his weight gain and his protein shakes

He has gained about 25 yards, nice but not world beating, and he's not the longest. Length isnt the milestone many see it as.He goes for straight, he goes for the short game which he now excels, he is right at the top of the bunch there. he goes for putting which he excels. He can be a bit fanatic, he will work hard a LOT on any part of his game and that shows. Anyone can do that.

You dont actually have a muscleman here, you have someone who is pedantic and a hard worker and goes at details. Anyone can do that, but his work ethic is amazing, and thats being rewarded

He is slow, too pedantic, but hes covering off the calcs that they do. I expect that to be reined in. But its handy if he's about to putt, I can make a coffee, chat to the wife and start the lawn and still not miss it lol

In short forget his driving distance, its not that, but that's all most talk about.

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#2571992 22-Sep-2020 13:27

Bung: What's the long term survival of the big hitters? I have no interest in golf but have noted Tiger Woods having quite a few problems with his back.

DeChambeau pivots on his lead foot about 90 degrees. Normally the lead foot remains where it was, rolling over a tad. DeC swivels on it, thats to protect his knee, probably helps the back as well.

Tiger has a super quick swing, that makes my back hurt looking at it

Im not a medic but some swings are hard and fast, others are more graceful/smooth, it cant help the back with some swings I see

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#2571995 22-Sep-2020 13:32

I'm not a fan of Bryson's, but you can't argue with the fact that he has found a way to get the ball in the hole in as few strokes as possible that works for him. It doesn't, and won't work for most people but it does work for him.

It starts with his power, but doesn't end there. One of his greatest attributes is his distance control with mid-short irons. His swing is very repeatable and repeatability results in consistency of strike and therefore distance. Its been shown time and time again that distance control in wedges is what leads to birdie putts and lower scores. At his peak, no one could match Tiger for distance control. Well Bryson does now. And don't get me started at just how insanely good his short game and putting is!

The big debate about about distance in the game of golf comes down to two things.

1) It is making some of the greatest golf courses ever designed and built become obsolete. And in reaction to trying to stay current, the courses are being altered in a way that makes them unrecognisable. No one knows how to combat distance through course design. Make it longer, grow the rough, add more hazards, firm up the greens. None of these have worked because of one simple reason. A wedge from the rough will always get inside a 5-iron from the fairway.

2) Bifurcation of rules. A big word that just simply means two sets of rules. One set of rules for the Pros and one set for the Amateurs. There is a lot of discussion about introducing a control ball with limited distance for Pro competitions. The R&A and the USGA are dead against this as they do not want to introduce two sets of rules. They can't make golf harder for the average weekend hacker so the ball can't be rolled back for everyone.

So this is where we are today. No one knows how to combat distance in the modern era of professional golf.

Back to Bryson. As I said, I'm not a fan, but I tip my cap to him. He played one of the best final rounds of golf on Sunday to shoot -3 on a day when no other player manage to better par to come from behind and win the US Open. You sir, deserve all the accolades!

PS... I'm a 5ft 8", 75Kg golfer playing of a 3 HCP who thinks he could be off scratch or better if I were 6ft 3" and 90Kg!!

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#2572001 22-Sep-2020 13:42

The same arguments came out 20 years ago when a young agile Tiger Woods first hit the pros. He would out drive everyone by quite some margin, he changed the game to being more athletic, working out with weights etc. The game evolved and Tiger was no longer the dominant player he once was.

Tiger was paired with a player one day recently, who after putting in, virtually ran up to the cup and plucked the ball out before it had barely sunk. Tiger emulated this with his own putt and then had a laugh about it with is playing partner. The commentators commented that a Tiger of 10 years ago would never have done that, he was far more aloof on the golf course and used to keep his distance from playing partners, now he is completely changed. Perhaps Bryson will change or people will adapt to his style.

I don't know of DeChambeau has been drug tested or not, but the human body can only put on about 1/2 a pound lean muscle each week naturally, if you are training hard with compound exercises, eating 1g/lb protein per day (roughly) and allowing enough rest for body to recover properly. When I heard about his transformation, I questioned how he did it.

For the pros, they have their whole game so dialed in that they know what club and how hard to hit a 100, 105, 187, 198 yard shot etc. Sure, higher loft / short irons have an advantage in that they are easier to hit and control the distance with, but at their level, its not the same advantage as a normal club hacker.

His whole set up is bizarre, but it all seems to be for creating as wide of an arc as possible and generating maximum club head speed.

I have no idea how Matthew Wolf even manages to hit the ball. I thought Jim Furyk had a bizarre vertical swing, but he takes it to a whole new level, but it works for him.

Theres only one type of luck in golf, thats bad luck. Everything else is local knowledge and course management. Bryson simply had less bad luck in the 4 days than some others

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#2572011 22-Sep-2020 13:47

Im not a fan either, I just think hes a very good golfer (as they all are) but so many pick on him, Its like he looks like Arnie Schwarzenegger and hits it 450 yars. He doesnt. He gained 25 yards, thats all, and he's not the biggest hitter out there. All he's done is work really hard on many facets of his game, thats all he has done. Rory picking on him is dumb, Rory is a bigger hitter.

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#2572098 22-Sep-2020 14:23

You seem to fixated on his length. A couple of points.

It’s not just 25yds. In the game of golf 25 yards is the difference between me and Usain bolt over 100m. 25yds can take trouble out of play, it’s the difference between hitting a 7-iron into the green and hitting a wedge.

Secondly be careful quoting the stats from the tour. They don’t measure every hole, and they don’t care what club you hit. If Bryson hits a 3-iron on one of the holes being measured that week then that becomes part of his driving statistic. Also they measure total difference. Two players may hit it 330yds but I can assure you the one who can carry it the furthest has a massive advantage over the golfer who gets a lot of run.

For example you mentioned Louis, great golfer who can be deceptively long in the stats. Make no mistake, put Louis and Bryson on the same tee with driver in their hands and Bryson will carry it 60yds further than Louis every day. That’s a massive advantage.

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