Another (2nd) 737 Max 8 crash

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#2381056 24-Dec-2019 18:08

sbiddle:

What is concerning is *every* other aircraft out there that hasn't had the same level of scrutiny that the MAX has now had, and since the 2 MAX crashes the number of flight control changes that have been made by both Airbus and Boeing on other aircraft.

I really don't think it takes two fatal accidents to return to a normal level of safety that other airplanes already have. The incident shows clearly what happens, when business decisions overrule technical development needs/time. You need 20 years to get trusted and 5 minutes to ruin it.

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#2381099 24-Dec-2019 21:37

sbiddle:
jarledb:

I still think the fact that the MCAS system was designed the way it was, and that there was no serious training of the pilots on the MAX shows how deeply flawed this whole project was.

Would not shed a tear if this breaks Boeing and the Max never fly again.

I'm the exact opposite. I would happily fly on a MAX tomorrow if they were flying.

What is concerning is *every* other aircraft out there that hasn't had the same level of scrutiny that the MAX has now had, and since the 2 MAX crashes the number of flight control changes that have been made by both Airbus and Boeing on other aircraft.

They bolted oversized modern engines onto an ancient airframe. Oops, they don't play nicely, we'll build an app for that. You can have all the scrutiny in the world, after which you're still got a pig with lipstick. Pass, I'm flying Airbus.

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#2381166 25-Dec-2019 08:31

dafman:

They bolted oversized modern engines onto an ancient airframe. Oops, they don't play nicely, we'll build an app for that. You can have all the scrutiny in the world, after which you're still got a pig with lipstick. Pass, I'm flying Airbus.

Would you even fly a 321neo with it's excessive pitch up issue that was discovered as a direct result of Airbus engineers running tests after the MAX crash?

https://www.mro-network.com/maintenance-repair-overhaul/airbus-easa-flag-a321neo-pitch-anomaly

The Airbus vs Boeing debate has already been thrashed out in this thread. Airbus have had plenty of flight control issues themselves over the years and the simplistic view that the MAX is dangerous and an Airbus is not is simply not true.

What is scary is that a simple damaged or iced up sensor can cause catastrophic crashes, and the Air NZ A320 crash and Air France A330 crash are both proof of this along with the MAX crashes.

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#2381172 25-Dec-2019 08:57

sbiddle:

dafman:

They bolted oversized modern engines onto an ancient airframe. Oops, they don't play nicely, we'll build an app for that. You can have all the scrutiny in the world, after which you're still got a pig with lipstick. Pass, I'm flying Airbus.

Would you even fly a 321neo with it's excessive pitch up issue that was discovered as a direct result of Airbus engineers running tests after the MAX crash?

https://www.mro-network.com/maintenance-repair-overhaul/airbus-easa-flag-a321neo-pitch-anomaly

The Airbus vs Boeing debate has already been thrashed out in this thread. Airbus have had plenty of flight control issues themselves over the years and the simplistic view that the MAX is dangerous and an Airbus is not is simply not true.

What is scary is that a simple damaged or iced up sensor can cause catastrophic crashes, and the Air NZ A320 crash and Air France A330 crash are both proof of this along with the MAX crashes.

Well said Steve.

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rb99

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#2390258 11-Jan-2020 14:28

The rewards of failure -

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/10/boeing-dennis-muilenburg-60m-stock-pension

Not there's anything new about useless CEO's and their obscene rewards.

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#2516013 2-Jul-2020 10:17

Not pretty reading. I guess the positive being that for the next decade or so we can hope for fewer such issues.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers/inspector-general-slams-boeing-for-holding-back-information-on-737-max/139102.article

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/01/politics/boeing-737-max/index.html

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Oblivian

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#2516030 2-Jul-2020 10:55

There have been numerous re-certification flights over the lockdown months. A couple in the last few days.

They seem to think they are closer to getting airborne.

msukiwi

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#2516031 2-Jul-2020 11:01

Oblivian:They seem to think they are closer to getting airborne.

Getting airborne wasn't the problem.

Staying airborne was.

networkn

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#2516032 2-Jul-2020 11:02

I'll never board one by choice again :)

I may be close to the most tested aircraft ever, but still....

To be honest, if it was an option I'd probably not board a boeing craft again. If half of what they claim went on over this debacle is true......

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#2516128 2-Jul-2020 12:43

networkn:

I'll never board one by choice again :)

I may be close to the most tested aircraft ever, but still....

To be honest, if it was an option I'd probably not board a boeing craft again. If half of what they claim went on over this debacle is true......

+1. I'm firmly in the camp of Airbus if possible.

I will fly Boeing if no other option, but it there is an Airbus alternative for same destination I will choose aircraft over airline for the foreseeable.

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#2516478 2-Jul-2020 20:16

dafman:

networkn:

I'll never board one by choice again :)

I may be close to the most tested aircraft ever, but still....

To be honest, if it was an option I'd probably not board a boeing craft again. If half of what they claim went on over this debacle is true......

+1. I'm firmly in the camp of Airbus if possible.

I will fly Boeing if no other option, but it there is an Airbus alternative for same destination I will choose aircraft over airline for the foreseeable.

On the other hand I'd choose Boeing over Airbus any day.

Focusing on the brand is actually the wrong focus. Choosing aircraft over airline is not a good idea. There are much bigger problems elsewhere which are airline/regulator issues that have a significantly greater influence on accident rates. Some of these issues were present in both 737 Max crashes.

The recent Pakistan International Airlines A320 crash is a very good example of some the types of issues involved.

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#2516487 2-Jul-2020 20:37

networkn:
To be honest, if it was an option I'd probably not board a boeing craft again. If half of what they claim went on over this debacle is true......

So, given that the shortcuts on the 737MAX was done to save money, and Boeing and Airbus sell similar products for similar prices, why do you think that Airbus doesn't cut every corner they can? Do you think that they're vastly more efficient than Boeing?

Technofreak

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#2516503 2-Jul-2020 21:32

frankv:
So, given that the shortcuts on the 737MAX was done to save money, and Boeing and Airbus sell similar products for similar prices, why do you think that Airbus doesn't cut every corner they can? Do you think that they're vastly more efficient than Boeing?

Airbus have had their own pitch stability issues with the A320 NEO. Perhaps not to the same extent as Boeing and certainly not as public, but they've had them none the less.

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#2516615 3-Jul-2020 09:25

Technofreak:

The recent Pakistan International Airlines A320 crash is a very good example of some the types of issues involved.

...wonders if this is true (Business Insider not renowned for being an impartial source of news):

Article

More than 30% of civilian commercial pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses and are not fully qualified to fly passenger planes, the country’s aviation minster said on Wednesday.

networkn

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#2516618 3-Jul-2020 09:28

frankv:
networkn:

To be honest, if it was an option I'd probably not board a boeing craft again. If half of what they claim went on over this debacle is true......

So, given that the shortcuts on the 737MAX was done to save money, and Boeing and Airbus sell similar products for similar prices, why do you think that Airbus doesn't cut every corner they can? Do you think that they're vastly more efficient than Boeing?

Well, last time I checked, Airbuses weren't just falling out of the Sky :)

I don't doubt they are both cost cutting any way they can (and probably in inappropriate ways. Based off the information I have today, I wouldn't fly on a 737-Max 8 by choice, and since I have a choice....

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