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Mad Scientist
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#248119 11-Mar-2019 08:35
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12211362

A jetliner carrying 157 people crashed shortly after takeoff from the Ethiopian capital yesterday, killing everyone aboard, authorities said. At least 35 nationalities were among the dead.

It was not clear what caused the Ethiopian Airlines plane to go down in clear weather. But the accident was strikingly similar to last year's crash of a Lion Air jet that plunged into the Java Sea, killing 189 people. Both crashes involved the Boeing 737 Max 8, and both happened minutes after the jets became airborne.

The Ethiopian pilot sent out a distress call and was given clearance to return to the airport, the airline's CEO told reporters.




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  #2195502 11-Mar-2019 08:35
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Allow me to introduce you folks to our new travel community: TravelTalk NZ.

 

We hope to see you there!

 





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  #2195509 11-Mar-2019 08:37
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Thanks Peter




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  #2195528 11-Mar-2019 08:55
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Boeing still haven't owned up to Lion Air. But they addressed the software issue. Odd.


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  #2195534 11-Mar-2019 09:03
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tdgeek:

 

Boeing still haven't owned up to Lion Air. But they addressed the software issue. Odd.

 



Maybe this one had skipped the firmware update - The old "Do you want to update now or later dialogue box"


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  #2195537 11-Mar-2019 09:06
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Another one of these planes going down with in what, 2 years of being operational?
Not a good look... Reminds me of the Comet or Electra..



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  #2195565 11-Mar-2019 09:23
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Many of these fly out of NZ?

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  #2195575 11-Mar-2019 09:37
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Fiji Air are planning (or are now) flying the Max 8 in and out of NZ.

 

Not used domestically by any airline currently.


 
 
 
 


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  #2195664 11-Mar-2019 10:26
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tdgeek:

 

Boeing still haven't owned up to Lion Air. But they addressed the software issue. Odd.

 

 

I don't believe any new / changed B737 MAX software or hardware has been approved or issued.
The only changes as far as I know, is to include documentation in the flight crew reference manuals that the MCAS exists, and how it works.

 

There are probably very serious discussions going on between Boeing and the main certification authorities (FAA & EASA) about how a system that is critical to flight safety can rely on a single sensor (Angle of Attack indicator) input with no redundancy, no 'voting', not even a 'disagree flag'
Just my $0.02


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  #2195672 11-Mar-2019 10:33
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I can tell you I won't be boarding a 737 MAX any time soon. 


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  #2195725 11-Mar-2019 11:34
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This is the kind of issue that is heavily dependent on pilot training and retraining. In practice I believe this has suffered internationally due to the massive demand for new pilots. Flying 737 max in itself would not bother me much but I'd be very concerned to check about the pilot hire, training, and retraining policies of the airline.

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  #2195733 11-Mar-2019 11:39
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gzt: This is the kind of issue that is heavily dependent on pilot training and retraining. In practice I believe this has suffered internationally due to the massive demand for new pilots. Flying 737 max in itself would not bother me much but I'd be very concerned to check about the pilot hire, training, and retraining policies of the airline.

 

And how would you check this enough to verify that on the day the pilot was going to follow those procedures?

 

I'd find it much more reliable to get on another flight/airline that wasn't flying those particular planes.

 

 


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  #2195764 11-Mar-2019 12:06
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How long before someone has the balls to ground ALL Boeing 737 800MAX aircraft?


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  #2195770 11-Mar-2019 12:12
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PeterReader:

 

Allow me to introduce you folks to our new travel community: TravelTalk NZ.

 

 

 

We hope to see you there!

 

 

A little inappropriate!




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  #2195774 11-Mar-2019 12:18
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gzt: This is the kind of issue that is heavily dependent on pilot training and retraining. In practice I believe this has suffered internationally due to the massive demand for new pilots. Flying 737 max in itself would not bother me much but I'd be very concerned to check about the pilot hire, training, and retraining policies of the airline.

 

Maybe.

 

But with this very specific issue, maybe not.





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  #2195782 11-Mar-2019 12:31
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PolicyGuy:

tdgeek:


Boeing still haven't owned up to Lion Air. But they addressed the software issue. Odd.



I don't believe any new / changed B737 MAX software or hardware has been approved or issued.
The only changes as far as I know, is to include documentation in the flight crew reference manuals that the MCAS exists, and how it works.


There are probably very serious discussions going on between Boeing and the main certification authorities (FAA & EASA) about how a system that is critical to flight safety can rely on a single sensor (Angle of Attack indicator) input with no redundancy, no 'voting', not even a 'disagree flag'
Just my $0.02



From my understanding, the MCAS was / is overriding pilot commands. Meaning that the pilots cant simply pull back on the ”stick” to keep the plane flying in the desired direction. And that the pilots can only regain control of the aircraft, by disabling the MCAS.

But at low altitude, there may not be enough time to disable the MCAS.





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