Travel Bubble to Cooks

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#2520128 9-Jul-2020 14:54

I guess where the Cooks are coming from is that tourism is everything and NZ has no Covid (crossing fingers) so the risk is probnbaly very very low. I guess they could use AKL Regional airport as the Cooks are a psuedo suburb, so mixing us with Cook Islanders is a safe bubble with a safe bubble

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#2520136 9-Jul-2020 15:19

One way to solve the separation problem would be to run all the CI flights to and from an airport with full International facilities and no International flights.
Yes, Hamilton, it's you I'm thinking of ;)
But maybe Invercargill, too

Or, cease flights from & to Oz out of Wellington and make Wellington the NZ Covid-free Pacific Islands Hub. I can't see the Wellington Airport company much liking that, though

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#2520139 9-Jul-2020 15:25

PolicyGuy:

One way to solve the separation problem would be to run all the CI flights to and from an airport with full International facilities and no International flights.
Yes, Hamilton, it's you I'm thinking of ;)
But maybe Invercargill, too

Or, cease flights from & to Oz out of Wellington and make Wellington the NZ Covid-free Pacific Islands Hub. I can't see the Wellington Airport company much liking that, though

Why not Auckland Domestic? CHC to AKL is the same as CI to AKL, its covid free, no bubble mixing. You can also argue its just a national flight

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#2520140 9-Jul-2020 15:26

MikeAqua:

tdgeek:

1. Thats the PM's main concern. Bubble is easy, this bit isnt, as you explained

2. Cooks say they can

3. True, but Cooks say bring it on, at least from a day or so ago

I gather the upside for them is substantial, tourism is about all they have

1) I've read up some more on this. There is now mounting evidence for airborne transmission with lab evidence suggesting the virus is viable for 4 hours in the air.

We have known this for months that droplets can potentially remain suspended in air for a few hours. There was a recent article from about a week ago from a big group of doctors asking for the WHO to declare that it is airborne. Here is a article on it from yesterday. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/420785/covid-19-airborne-transmission-evidence-will-be-evaluated-who

They are so slow.

Took them ages to declare that people should wear masks, so NZer didn't wear masks, and we eliminated it after they declared that we should wear them.

wellygary

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#2520168 9-Jul-2020 15:54

tdgeek:

PolicyGuy:

One way to solve the separation problem would be to run all the CI flights to and from an airport with full International facilities and no International flights.
Yes, Hamilton, it's you I'm thinking of ;)
But maybe Invercargill, too

Or, cease flights from & to Oz out of Wellington and make Wellington the NZ Covid-free Pacific Islands Hub. I can't see the Wellington Airport company much liking that, though

Why not Auckland Domestic? CHC to AKL is the same as CI to AKL, its covid free, no bubble mixing. You can also argue its just a national flight

IMHO, Its not the CI flights that should be send elsewhere, because once/if we get a bubble with OZ/ or individual states we will need more "safe" airports"

its the quarantine flights that are causing the trouble, so we should look at keeping them separate, bus them from the tarmac to distinct facilities, such as a big shed or a warehouse, where they have set up CIQ and a baggage claim system ... before being bussed to their MIQ hotel.. (and no I don't care if they miss out on their Duty free)

With the government likely to cap arrivals this should not be that hard....

xlinknz

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#2520177 9-Jul-2020 16:01

tdgeek:

PolicyGuy:

One way to solve the separation problem would be to run all the CI flights to and from an airport with full International facilities and no International flights.
Yes, Hamilton, it's you I'm thinking of ;)
But maybe Invercargill, too

Or, cease flights from & to Oz out of Wellington and make Wellington the NZ Covid-free Pacific Islands Hub. I can't see the Wellington Airport company much liking that, though

Why not Auckland Domestic? CHC to AKL is the same as CI to AKL, its covid free, no bubble mixing. You can also argue its just a national flight

It has already been agreed between the Cooks and NZ govts that ingress & egress from Rarotonga will be AKL until Dec
NZ has to solve the issue of separation at airports if we want to have a bubble with Australia, the Cooks is ideal to prove that process
The Cooks will presumably wait until there is acceptable risk of no contagion via Community transmission in NZ, the recent NZ border 'lapses' have not helped that
Both the Cooks and NZ are currently working through the detail of how the bubble will work including NZ being satisfied of the Cooks Covid-19 process and procedures e.g. the Cooks medical facilities, border controls, their lab capability (yes they can do their own testing) etc. Ironically they have tested far more than NZ i.e. 15% of their population

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tdgeek

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#2520195 9-Jul-2020 16:45

xlinknz:

tdgeek:

Why not Auckland Domestic? CHC to AKL is the same as CI to AKL, its covid free, no bubble mixing. You can also argue its just a national flight

It has already been agreed between the Cooks and NZ govts that ingress & egress from Rarotonga will be AKL until Dec
NZ has to solve the issue of separation at airports if we want to have a bubble with Australia, the Cooks is ideal to prove that process
The Cooks will presumably wait until there is acceptable risk of no contagion via Community transmission in NZ, the recent NZ border 'lapses' have not helped that
Both the Cooks and NZ are currently working through the detail of how the bubble will work including NZ being satisfied of the Cooks Covid-19 process and procedures e.g. the Cooks medical facilities, border controls, their lab capability (yes they can do their own testing) etc. Ironically they have tested far more than NZ i.e. 15% of their population

Whats the separation at airports issue? Aucklands has International that can be used for covid arrivals, the NZ bubble and Raro bubble use the Domestic terminal.

xlinknz

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#2520202 9-Jul-2020 16:55

tdgeek:

Whats the separation at airports issue? Aucklands has International that can be used for covid arrivals, the NZ bubble and Raro bubble use the Domestic terminal.

The issue is that the PM no less said that is an issue to be solved when put under pressure about why there isn't a Cooks bubble yet but I agree just using the domestic terminal is certainly something that could be looked at, its not a hard problem to solve esp. if you treat the Cooks as a domestic destination

It was apparent to me in an interview she had with Duncan Garner here (starts 1.30 about Cooks) earlier this week she had not yet been briefed by Peter's on his meeting with the Cooks last week here otherwise surely she could have said we are working on it etc?

tdgeek

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#2520205 9-Jul-2020 17:04

xlinknz:

The issue is that the PM no less said that is an issue to be solved when put under pressure about why there isn't a Cooks bubble yet but I agree just using the domestic terminal is certainly something that could be looked at, its not a hard problem to solve esp. if you treat the Cooks as a domestic destination

It was clear as well in that interview (Duncan Garner newtalkzb) she had not yet been briefed by Peter's on his meeting with the Cooks earlier this week otherwise surely she could have said we are working on it etc

I heard the PM said separation at airports is a problem, but it isn't really. No need to share airports.A covid free airport that NZ and any bubble country can use, the Internatonal for at risk flights. Truth be known she doesn't want that before the election.

wellygary

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#2520208 9-Jul-2020 17:09

xlinknz:

Both the Cooks and NZ are currently working through the detail of how the bubble will work including NZ being satisfied of the Cooks Covid-19 process and procedures e.g. the Cooks medical facilities, border controls, their lab capability (yes they can do their own testing) etc. Ironically they have tested far more than NZ i.e. 15% of their population

The Cooks are also rolling out a track and trace system similar to NZ, except you have the QR code ( on a plastic card) and scan it against a device at the location.,

https://cit-covid19.s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/Cooksafe+DLE+JUNE+2020_+.pdf

xlinknz

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#2520213 9-Jul-2020 17:23

tdgeek:

xlinknz:

The issue is that the PM no less said that is an issue to be solved when put under pressure about why there isn't a Cooks bubble yet but I agree just using the domestic terminal is certainly something that could be looked at, its not a hard problem to solve esp. if you treat the Cooks as a domestic destination

It was clear as well in that interview (Duncan Garner newtalkzb) she had not yet been briefed by Peter's on his meeting with the Cooks earlier this week otherwise surely she could have said we are working on it etc

I heard the PM said separation at airports is a problem, but it isn't really. No need to share airports.A covid free airport that NZ and any bubble country can use, the Internatonal for at risk flights. Truth be known she doesn't want that before the election.

Agreed regarding airport separation and I certainly agree the Govt don't want risk of contagion occurring before the election. In that regards it has worked out well for the Govt that an Australian bubble is no where near close for obvious reasons. However as I am sure you're agree there is negligible if any risk of contagion from the Cooks. If the NZ govt is smart they would either effect a bubble with the Cooks as progress on how travel bubbles would work or at least announce it i.e. make a Cooks bubble a good news story of progress on opening to the rest of the world...

I expect we'll hear more on the Cooks next week

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xlinknz

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#2520214 9-Jul-2020 17:30

wellygary:

xlinknz:

Both the Cooks and NZ are currently working through the detail of how the bubble will work including NZ being satisfied of the Cooks Covid-19 process and procedures e.g. the Cooks medical facilities, border controls, their lab capability (yes they can do their own testing) etc. Ironically they have tested far more than NZ i.e. 15% of their population

The Cooks are also rolling out a track and trace system similar to NZ, except you have the QR code ( on a plastic card) and scan it against a device at the location.,

https://cit-covid19.s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/Cooksafe+DLE+JUNE+2020_+.pdf

Thx for that. More people need to give the Cooks more credit than they get in regards to Covid-19 response

tdgeek

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#2520279 9-Jul-2020 18:58

xlinknz:

Agreed regarding airport separation and I certainly agree the Govt don't want risk of contagion occurring before the election. In that regards it has worked out well for the Govt that an Australian bubble is no where near close for obvious reasons. However as I am sure you're agree there is negligible if any risk of contagion from the Cooks. If the NZ govt is smart they would either effect a bubble with the Cooks as progress on how travel bubbles would work or at least announce it i.e. make a Cooks bubble a good news story of progress on opening to the rest of the world...

I expect we'll hear more on the Cooks next week

Fully agree.

Handle9

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#2520292 9-Jul-2020 19:06

tdgeek:
xlinknz:

It has already been agreed between the Cooks and NZ govts that ingress & egress from Rarotonga will be AKL until Dec

NZ has to solve the issue of separation at airports if we want to have a bubble with Australia, the Cooks is ideal to prove that process

The Cooks will presumably wait until there is acceptable risk of no contagion via Community transmission in NZ, the recent NZ border 'lapses' have not helped that

Both the Cooks and NZ are currently working through the detail of how the bubble will work including NZ being satisfied of the Cooks Covid-19 process and procedures e.g. the Cooks medical facilities, border controls, their lab capability (yes they can do their own testing) etc. Ironically they have tested far more than NZ i.e. 15% of their population

Whats the separation at airports issue? Aucklands has International that can be used for covid arrivals, the NZ bubble and Raro bubble use the Domestic terminal.

There is no departure/arrival segregation or rescreening at the domestic terminal. It's a fairly crap layout to do this, even with temporary hoardings.

There's also no biosecurity or customs / immigration facilities.

To go to the cook islands you are leaving/entering New Zealand territory so there are very different requirements.

tdgeek

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#2520294 9-Jul-2020 19:14

Handle9:
tdgeek:

Whats the separation at airports issue? Aucklands has International that can be used for covid arrivals, the NZ bubble and Raro bubble use the Domestic terminal.

There is no departure/arrival segregation or rescreening at the domestic terminal. It's a fairly crap layout to do this, even with temporary hoardings.

There's also no biosecurity or customs / immigration facilities.

To go to the cook islands you are leaving/entering New Zealand territory so there are very different requirements.

The way I see it, Cooks aren't the same as another country. Its a dependency, uses NZ$, you can (and should) take meat there. From a bubble view, if NZ is free of Covid, and Raro is free of Covid, a NZ/Raro bubble makes sense. You can treat Raro as a NZ province, as there isn't the same delineation between them and us, and us and any other country where there is a true international border. And its small, making it less an issue.

Otherwise just forget the bubble its too much hassle. With so many people wanting 100% watertight, a bubble with Australia is a year away. We seem to want 100% security and zero risk

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