MH370 - Call for Search & Rescue Help

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#1020348 8-Apr-2014 08:11

Technofreak:
I have read that the Aussie OTHR doesn't work well at night due to the frequency range it operates in and the skip distances of those frequencies at night. Also I've also read it is really designed to detect shipping not aircraft.

I'm guessing that their OTHR is a lot more useful than they let on.

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#1020350 8-Apr-2014 08:15

You'll never find out. It's a secret.

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#1020408 8-Apr-2014 09:42

Yeah.. that's right. Disinformation & secrecy has been obscuring the facts surrounding all of this.

But Australia has a record of being on the cutting edge of HF radar issues involving ionospheric stability/reflection.

I'd be surprised if their early warning systems weren't up to scratch, and if they hadn't seen roughly where the aircraft went.

A quick glance at this (much sanitized) official history of OTHR in Aussie is interesting.
http://www.dsto.defence.gov.au/attachments/The_development_of_over-the-horizon_radar.pdf
The last paragraph on p39 neatly sums up the secrecy surrounding their systems.

Commonsense would tell us since those days many constraints - such as adequate computing power - have been overcome.

Even this quote from Wikipedia's entry on Over-the-horizon radar: Australia

“It has an official range of 3,000 kilometres (1,900 mi), but in 1997 the prototype was able to detect missile launches by China[6] over 5,500 kilometres (3,400 mi) away”

hints that they've a fairly well developed system.

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#1020897 8-Apr-2014 20:56

"Jindalee radar at Longreach, Alice Springs and Laverton (Western Australia) enables Australian military commanders to observe all air and sea activity north of Australia to distances of at least 3000 kilometers. This takes in all of Java, Irian Jaya, Papua New Guinea and the Solomon Islands, and halfway across the Indian Ocean"

http://web.archive.org/web/20071116065249/http://defence-data.com/features/fpage37.htm

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#1022177 9-Apr-2014 13:52

It would seems the Chinese claims to have heard the FDR/CVR pingers were false. They were about 600 km from where the Aussie have detected the pings which are generally agreed to be most likely coming from MH370. The distance between the two areas and signal attenuation means the Chinese could not have heard the pingers the Aussies have heard.

Seems like it was just a publicity stunt. Even the use of the hand held detector has been laughed at by some who have expertise in this area. It seemed a bit convenient they had the media there to witness the event. If they heard one pinger they should have also heard the other one as well, but they never did. Just another piece of disinformation.

Now they have some idea of where to look lets hope it's not too long before they can find the FDR and CVR.

Even though the CVR only has a two hour loop what is or isn't on the "tape" will provide an insight into what was happening on the flight deck during the two hours prior to the ditching/crash. For example, If there are recordings in that two hours then it's likely it was either a hi jacking or a crew orchestrated event.

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#1022215 9-Apr-2014 15:22

Technofreak: It would seems the Chinese claims to have heard the FDR/CVR pingers were false. They were about 600 km from where the Aussie have detected the pings which are generally agreed to be most likely coming from MH370. The distance between the two areas and signal attenuation means the Chinese could not have heard the pingers the Aussies have heard.

Seems like it was just a publicity stunt. Even the use of the hand held detector has been laughed at by some who have expertise in this area. It seemed a bit convenient they had the media there to witness the event. If they heard one pinger they should have also heard the other one as well, but they never did. Just another piece of disinformation.

Now they have some idea of where to look lets hope it's not too long before they can find the FDR and CVR.

Even though the CVR only has a two hour loop what is or isn't on the "tape" will provide an insight into what was happening on the flight deck during the two hours prior to the ditching/crash. For example, If there are recordings in that two hours then it's likely it was either a hi jacking or a crew orchestrated event.

Well Australian Press conference seems at odd with your comments.

Ocean Shield has been able to reacquire the signals that are consistent with airplane locator beacons on two more occasions -- both on Tuesday, said Angus Houston, head of the Australian-led search effort on Wednesday. Ocean Shield has now detected four transmissions in the same broad area. "I believe we are searching in the right area," he said.

The signals picked up by a ship searching for Flight 370 are consistent with a flight data recorder, said Angus Houston, head of the Australian-led search effort. The search area is now "reduced and much more manageable." Watch breaking news coverage now on CNN TV.

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#1022219 9-Apr-2014 15:28

networkn:
Technofreak: It would seems the Chinese claims to have heard the FDR/CVR pingers were false. They were about 600 km from where the Aussie have detected the pings which are generally agreed to be most likely coming from MH370. The distance between the two areas and signal attenuation means the Chinese could not have heard the pingers the Aussies have heard.

Seems like it was just a publicity stunt. Even the use of the hand held detector has been laughed at by some who have expertise in this area. It seemed a bit convenient they had the media there to witness the event. If they heard one pinger they should have also heard the other one as well, but they never did. Just another piece of disinformation.

Now they have some idea of where to look lets hope it's not too long before they can find the FDR and CVR.

Even though the CVR only has a two hour loop what is or isn't on the "tape" will provide an insight into what was happening on the flight deck during the two hours prior to the ditching/crash. For example, If there are recordings in that two hours then it's likely it was either a hi jacking or a crew orchestrated event.

Well Australian Press conference seems at odd with your comments.

Ocean Shield has been able to reacquire the signals that are consistent with airplane locator beacons on two more occasions -- both on Tuesday, said Angus Houston, head of the Australian-led search effort on Wednesday. Ocean Shield has now detected four transmissions in the same broad area. "I believe we are searching in the right area," he said.

The signals picked up by a ship searching for Flight 370 are consistent with a flight data recorder, said Angus Houston, head of the Australian-led search effort. The search area is now "reduced and much more manageable." Watch breaking news coverage now on CNN TV.

They are two different detections. I wouldn't put much faith in what the Chinese detected, as they were just hand held ones that they where holding over the edge of the ship, so they could have been causing interference. So i think they have already been discredited. The important one is the one being towed under the US or Australian ship. It also has an echo, which is consistent with a flight recorders, as that has two pings where one of them would be like an echo. I think that it is highly likely it is from the plane, because it can't really be created by anything else. But even knowing the broad area, it will be like finding a needle in a haystack when they get down there.

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#1022224 9-Apr-2014 15:36

networkn:
Technofreak: It would seems the Chinese claims to have heard the FDR/CVR pingers were false. They were about 600 km from where the Aussie have detected the pings which are generally agreed to be most likely coming from MH370. The distance between the two areas and signal attenuation means the Chinese could not have heard the pingers the Aussies have heard.

Seems like it was just a publicity stunt. Even the use of the hand held detector has been laughed at by some who have expertise in this area. It seemed a bit convenient they had the media there to witness the event. If they heard one pinger they should have also heard the other one as well, but they never did. Just another piece of disinformation.

Now they have some idea of where to look lets hope it's not too long before they can find the FDR and CVR.

Even though the CVR only has a two hour loop what is or isn't on the "tape" will provide an insight into what was happening on the flight deck during the two hours prior to the ditching/crash. For example, If there are recordings in that two hours then it's likely it was either a hi jacking or a crew orchestrated event.

Well Australian Press conference seems at odd with your comments.

Ocean Shield has been able to reacquire the signals that are consistent with airplane locator beacons on two more occasions -- both on Tuesday, said Angus Houston, head of the Australian-led search effort on Wednesday. Ocean Shield has now detected four transmissions in the same broad area. "I believe we are searching in the right area," he said.

The signals picked up by a ship searching for Flight 370 are consistent with a flight data recorder, said Angus Houston, head of the Australian-led search effort. The search area is now "reduced and much more manageable." Watch breaking news coverage now on CNN TV.

Well no actually, my comments are exactly in line with the Australian Press conference.

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#1022225 9-Apr-2014 15:37

mattwnz:
networkn:
Technofreak: It would seems the Chinese claims to have heard the FDR/CVR pingers were false. They were about 600 km from where the Aussie have detected the pings which are generally agreed to be most likely coming from MH370. The distance between the two areas and signal attenuation means the Chinese could not have heard the pingers the Aussies have heard.

Seems like it was just a publicity stunt. Even the use of the hand held detector has been laughed at by some who have expertise in this area. It seemed a bit convenient they had the media there to witness the event. If they heard one pinger they should have also heard the other one as well, but they never did. Just another piece of disinformation.

Now they have some idea of where to look lets hope it's not too long before they can find the FDR and CVR.

Even though the CVR only has a two hour loop what is or isn't on the "tape" will provide an insight into what was happening on the flight deck during the two hours prior to the ditching/crash. For example, If there are recordings in that two hours then it's likely it was either a hi jacking or a crew orchestrated event.

Well Australian Press conference seems at odd with your comments.

Ocean Shield has been able to reacquire the signals that are consistent with airplane locator beacons on two more occasions -- both on Tuesday, said Angus Houston, head of the Australian-led search effort on Wednesday. Ocean Shield has now detected four transmissions in the same broad area. "I believe we are searching in the right area," he said.

The signals picked up by a ship searching for Flight 370 are consistent with a flight data recorder, said Angus Houston, head of the Australian-led search effort. The search area is now "reduced and much more manageable." Watch breaking news coverage now on CNN TV.

They are two different detections. I wouldn't put much faith in what the Chinese detected, as they were just hand held ones that they where holding over the edge of the ship, so they could have been causing interference. So i think they have already been discredited. The important one is the one being towed under the US or Australian ship. It also has an echo, which is consistent with a flight recorders, as that has two pings where one of them would be like an echo. I think that it is highly likely it is from the plane, because it can't really be created by anything else. But even knowing the broad area, it will be like finding a needle in a haystack when they get down there.

Well as I understand it, the Australian ship went to the place the Chinese say they found their ping.

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#1022227 9-Apr-2014 15:40

mattwnz:
They are two different detections. I wouldn't put much faith in what the Chinese detected, as they were just hand held ones that they where holding over the edge of the ship, so they could have been causing interference. So i think they have already been discredited. The important one is the one being towed under the US or Australian ship. It also has an echo, which is consistent with a flight recorders, as that has two pings where one of them would be like an echo. I think that it is highly likely it is from the plane, because it can't really be created by anything else. But even knowing the broad area, it will be like finding a needle in a haystack when they get down there.

The FDR and/or CVR do not provide an echo type signal. They are two separate units each with their own pinger. Hence two signals. They might sound like an echo but are two very separate signals.

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#1022233 9-Apr-2014 15:44

networkn:

Well as I understand it, the Australian ship went to the place the Chinese say they found their ping.

No, the Aussies found their ping 600 km away from where the Chinese found theirs. It's not even remotely possible for either party to have heard the same ping.

There's speculation the Aussies might have been working in an area where the inmarsat lines and an airway that MH370 have have ended up on crossed each other.

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#1022234 9-Apr-2014 15:44

Hopefully that is 90% or more of the job done. We know roughly where the needle is in the haystack . If so, the battery level is now just a luxury.

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#1022235 9-Apr-2014 15:46

tdgeek: Hopefully that is 90% or more of the job done. We know roughly where the needle is in the haystack . If so, the battery level is now just a luxury.

Actually I think they are saying they now know where the haystack is.

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#1022236 9-Apr-2014 15:46

networkn:

Well as I understand it, the Australian ship went to the place the Chinese say they found their ping.

No the chinese ones were detected in a totally different area hundreds of miles away. Not sure if any ships went to investigate the chinese ones. But after the Australian ship detect the new ones, I think they have been concentrating on that location.

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#1022237 9-Apr-2014 15:49

mattwnz:
networkn:

Well as I understand it, the Australian ship went to the place the Chinese say they found their ping.

No the chinese ones were detected in a totally different area hundreds of miles away. Not sure if any ships went to investigate the chinese ones. But after the Australian ship detect the new ones, I think they have been concentrating on that location.

Correct

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