Do you think NZ will regulate airline refunds like the USA and Europe after COVID?

Forums › Travel (planes, train, cruise) › Do you think NZ will regulate airline refunds like the USA and Europe after COVID?

David321

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#272567 2-Jul-2020 13:21

Just a though, with all the anger towards airlines not providing refunds for cancelled flights and only offering vouchers, do you think parliament will ever bring in a law to better protect consumers which entitles them to a refund for a cancelled flight if requested? The USA and Europe have this, and although hard for the airlines I think it is fair in general.

I would guess there would be a lot of people who want this, so the govt my get brownie points for imposing this, but then as they are a major shareholder in our national airline they may not be keen to take on the risk?

What are your thought GZ community? I am all for it and would like to hope it will come in, but I have my doubts also.

_David_

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#2516141 2-Jul-2020 13:21

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wellygary

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#2516147 2-Jul-2020 13:34

In Europe and the US there are lots of Airlines, so the collapse of a couple of ones with low capitalisation is not a major problem.

Its been demonstrated on a number of occasions that the Government sees Air NZ as a strategic national asset and will not let it fail,

Sso the question should really be do NZers think the Government should backstop local airlines so they can get paid out on tickets for cancelled flights...

gzt

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#2516148 2-Jul-2020 13:35

USA has some odd regulations around airline passenger refunds and cancellations leading to all kinds of weird issues and inefficiencies. Following the USA model exactly would be unusual for other countries.

Is there any international convention on this?

sbiddle

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#2516152 2-Jul-2020 13:48

How much more are you willing to pay for an airline ticket to be able to guarantee a refund? If people had to pay US prices for flights they'd realise what a bargain airfares are in New Zealand.

In 100% of cases when people buy an airline ticket now they consciously make a decision as whether to purchase a non refundable or a refundable ticket. Maybe the better solution is changes to consumer law that somehow will educate people as to the differences (exactly how I don't quite know..)

MikeB4

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#2516153 2-Jul-2020 13:55

For me if an airline ticket non refundable is over a certain limit I jump up to a refundable ticket. I am willing to pay the extra for peace of mind. If its below my threshold I take the risk and buy non refundable. Its my choice and my responsibility to decide how much I am prepared to risk.

It's all moot these days as I am not getting on a plane anytime soon. I am not prepared to take the health risk.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

kobiak

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#2516156 2-Jul-2020 13:59

does CGA covers tickets? Is non-refundable against CGA? I though airline is still liable to provide service, etc. Like they provide accommodation + food if flight is delayed, etc

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sbiddle

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#2516158 2-Jul-2020 14:09

kobiak:

does CGA covers tickets? Is non-refundable against CGA? I though airline is still liable to provide service, etc. Like they provide accommodation + food if flight is delayed, etc

No. Civil Aviation Act covers airline tickets.

kobiak

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#2516161 2-Jul-2020 14:14

sbiddle:

kobiak:

does CGA covers tickets? Is non-refundable against CGA? I though airline is still liable to provide service, etc. Like they provide accommodation + food if flight is delayed, etc

No. Civil Aviation Act covers airline tickets.

Sounds more like YES.

https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/help-product-service/flights-tickets-events/cancellations-delays/

Your rights

Travel agents and airlines must comply with the service guarantees in the Consumer Guarantees Act (CGA). This means:

they must be competent and professional
their services must be fit for your particular purpose, eg have wheelchair facilities if you have asked for them.

A flight ticket is a contract between you and the airline. Before you buy it, the airline must clearly display, or tell you, the ticket's terms and conditions.

They cannot:

rely on terms and conditions — sometimes called Conditions of carriage — printed only on the ticket, unless you were given a reasonable chance to read them before you bought it
avoid compensating you for cancelled or delayed flights that were their fault, even if their terms and conditions say they can.

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Benjip

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#2516166 2-Jul-2020 14:17

kobiak:

Sounds more like YES.

https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/help-product-service/flights-tickets-events/cancellations-delays/

They cannot:

rely on terms and conditions — sometimes called Conditions of carriage — printed only on the ticket, unless you were given a reasonable chance to read them before you bought it
avoid compensating you for cancelled or delayed flights that were their fault, even if their terms and conditions say they can.

Do you think COVID-19 was the fault of the airline/s?

I believe that rule would be more likely to cover situations such as "we don't have enough staff rostered on that day, so we need to cancel your flight".

kobiak

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#2516167 2-Jul-2020 14:21

Benjip:

kobiak:

Sounds more like YES.

https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/help-product-service/flights-tickets-events/cancellations-delays/

They cannot:

rely on terms and conditions — sometimes called Conditions of carriage — printed only on the ticket, unless you were given a reasonable chance to read them before you bought it
avoid compensating you for cancelled or delayed flights that were their fault, even if their terms and conditions say they can.

Do you think COVID-19 was the fault of the airline/s?

I believe that rule would be more likely to cover situations such as "we don't have enough staff rostered on that day, so we need to cancel your flight".

I was asking for in general situation and not covid. Government grounded all the flights... so it's really nice on airlines to still offer refunds/vouchers/etc

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Senecio

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#2516235 2-Jul-2020 15:00

If refundable ticket classes were more appropriately priced then more people would take that option. I’ve seen full flexible airfares for up to 90% more than the non refundable airfare. Not many people are going to tick that box.

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sbiddle

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#2516248 2-Jul-2020 15:27

Senecio: If refundable ticket classes were more appropriately priced then more people would take that option. I’ve seen full flexible airfares for up to 90% more than the non refundable airfare. Not many people are going to tick that box.

Lots of people do. And lots of people actually have refundable fares (particularly international) because lots of higher booking classes (which would typically be fares sold closer to the flight time when cheaper fares are gone) are flexi class fares.

A refundable ticket for domestic flights is $60 more than a seat only or $40 more than a seat+bag fare. Probably 50% of my domestic flights are booked as this because it also allows same day changes which can mean significant cost savings for flights when changing (ie buying a cheaper flexi ticket and changing it to a more expensive flight).

For international flights it's a little more complex. You have to remember that "base" tickets are flexi - the cheapest seats on a flight are intentionally sold as saver fares and one of the conditions of that discounted fare is the fact it can't be refunded.

The price of every fare an airline sells is public information - so for example the difference between the cheapest S or L class Air NZ sale fare from NZ to Australia and a H class flexi fare is more than 100% (around $199ish vs $480 for a H class flexi) but it needs to be remembered that a H class flexi is not the most expensive fare, a full Y class fare (which is also flexi) is $810. This exists because of the huge range of fares to Australia and the fact the low entry level fares are so crazy cheap and are loss making and mostly tax rather than revenue for the airline.

For longhaul the difference is maybe 50% tops - for example looking at a flight to Los Angeles you could be paying around $899 for a discount economy fare and then another $250 or so to make that ticket a H class flexi fare.

MikeAqua

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#2516256 2-Jul-2020 15:45

No. They are a major shareholder in our only significant airline.

Mike

mattwnz

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#2516308 2-Jul-2020 16:48

sbiddle:

kobiak:

does CGA covers tickets? Is non-refundable against CGA? I though airline is still liable to provide service, etc. Like they provide accommodation + food if flight is delayed, etc

No. Civil Aviation Act covers airline tickets.

Would it be better if the CGA covered it, like it appears to with other tickets and canellations?

MikeB4

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#2516329 2-Jul-2020 17:18

I may well be wrong but I believe that Airlines and Travel Agents fall under the CGA. However the current situation with COVID 19 may limit that

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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