Ukraine War discussion

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#2956841 20-Aug-2022 11:10

kingdragonfly: CNBC: Russia is offering a hero’s medal and $16,000 to women who have 10 kids

A Soviet-era poster proclaiming “Glory to the mother heroine”

A 1945 “Mother Heroine” stamp and the USSR-era badge

Sideface

ezbee

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#2956902 20-Aug-2022 12:22

While in Russia mass conscription is off the table.

Russia now holds night ambushes to forcibly send Donbas men to Ukraine war
https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/08/19/russia-now-holds-night-ambushes-to-forcibly-send-donbas-men-to-ukraine-war/

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Forced conscription: how Russia wipes out the male population of occupied Donbas
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According to one of the reports on local Telegram channels, the mobilization in Luhansk was carried out in a more organized manner than before: Russian military conscription officers started working with HR departments of local enterprises.

“They were inviting employees of personnel departments to the military commissariat instructing those to bring the lists of working men aged 18 to 55, and obliged those to hand over ten ‘volunteers’ on the next day, otherwise they threatened to issue draft notices to all the men of the enterprises.”
""

cruxis

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#2956906 20-Aug-2022 13:13

Ukraine has also been doing that from the start. Ukrainian men aged 18 to 60 are eligible for military service and are forbidden from leaving the country. Men aged 18 to 60 must register at the military enlistment office.

Rikkitic

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#2956914 20-Aug-2022 13:33

cruxis:

Ukraine has also been doing that from the start. Ukrainian men aged 18 to 60 are eligible for military service and are forbidden from leaving the country. Men aged 18 to 60 must register at the military enlistment office.

What point are you making here? Ukraine is fighting for its survival. Russia is the widely condemned aggressive invader.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

neb

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#2957038 20-Aug-2022 17:49

Sideface:
A 1945 “Mother Heroine” stamp and the USSR-era badge

The problem with that one is that any number of other countries at about that time have done the same thing. The one that springs immediately to mind is the Nazi Cross of the German Mother, but all they did was copy the Medal of the French Family which still exists today (at least the German one was discontinued in 1945). Other European countries have also given women medals for producing as many offspring as possible, and like France some are still awarded today. In addition since the Soviet Union had a ~27 million population loss to make up, they of all countries would have had a legitimate reason to encourage having more babies.

Even NZ had this sort of thing. The Plunket Society was originally formed to try to ensure that the brown races in the empire wouldn't outbreed the white race, something that's not publicised much on the Plunket web site. The eugenicists also spread the message that women working or studying would harm them and prevent them from doing what they were designed for, making babies (seriously!). NZ banned any information about contraception for a good chunk of the 20th century, up until the 1960s when the pill made the ban moot, although in the last few decades more under some sort of moral-outrage banner than because contraception threatened the white race with extinction under an onslaught of non-white babies.

tdgeek

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#2957040 20-Aug-2022 17:56

neb:
Sideface:

A 1945 “Mother Heroine” stamp and the USSR-era badge

The problem with that one is that any number of other countries at about that time have done the same thing. The one that springs immediately to mind is the Nazi Cross of the German Mother, but all they did was copy the Medal of the French Family which still exists today (at least the German one was discontinued in 1945). Other European countries have also given women medals for producing as many offspring as possible, and like France some are still awarded today. In addition since the Soviet Union had a ~27 million population loss to make up, they of all countries would have had a legitimate reason to encourage having more babies. Even NZ had this sort of thing. The Plunket Society was originally formed to try to ensure that the brown races in the empire wouldn't outbreed the white race, something that's not publicised much on the Plunket web site. The eugenicists also spread the message that women working or studying would harm them and prevent them from doing what they were designed for, making babies (seriously!). NZ banned any information about contraception for a good chunk of the 20th century, up until the 1960s when the pill made the ban moot, although in the last few decades more under some sort of moral-outrage banner than because contraception threatened the white race with extinction under an onslaught of non-white babies.

Years ago I read a summary of an old NZ book. Wives were to do housework and breed. When the husband was due home she needed to put on the makeup to be the best she could be to the husband. Reality was back then that was normal. Id say the hubbies liked it so did the wives as that was life then. Thanks goodness we moved on

Rikkitic

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#2957043 20-Aug-2022 18:11

tdgeek:

Years ago I read a summary of an old NZ book. Wives were to do housework and breed. When the husband was due home she needed to put on the makeup to be the best she could be to the husband. Reality was back then that was normal. Id say the hubbies liked it so did the wives as that was life then. Thanks goodness we moved on

Years ago those Stepford wives kept secret bottles of sherry in the cupboard, gobbled mother's little helpers, went off to asylums when they just couldn't live the lie any longer. Thank goodness we moved on.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Tinkerisk

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#2957395 21-Aug-2022 20:20

But the Mothers' Cross would never been awarded without men? - Uh, where is the shortest way out of here? ;-)

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#2957726 22-Aug-2022 12:01

I wouldn't want to be Alexander Dugin, her father.

AP news: Car blast kills daughter of Russian known as ‘Putin’s brain’

The daughter of an influential Russian political theorist often referred to as “Putin’s brain” was killed in a car bombing on the outskirts of Moscow, authorities said Sunday.

The Moscow branch of the Russian Investigative Committee said preliminary information indicated 29-year-old TV commentator Daria Dugina was killed by an explosive planted in the SUV she was driving Saturday night.

There was no immediate claim of responsibility. But the bloodshed gave rise to suspicions that the intended target was her father, Alexander Dugin, a nationalist philosopher and writer.

Dugin is a prominent proponent of the “Russian world” concept, a spiritual and political ideology that emphasizes traditional values, the restoration of Russia’s power and the unity of all ethnic Russians throughout the world. He is also a vehement supporter of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s move sending troops into Ukraine.
...

kingdragonfly

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#2957735 22-Aug-2022 12:31

Probable target of assassination. And yes, he's a d_ck head.

Aleksandr Dugin: The far-right theorist behind Putin's plan

60 Minutes

gzt

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#2957794 22-Aug-2022 13:04

cruxis: Ukraine has also been doing that from the start.

You should know there is a difference between that and forcible conscription by an occupying power.
.

gzt

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#2957798 22-Aug-2022 13:15

But the bloodshed gave rise to suspicions that the intended target was her father, Alexander Dugin, a nationalist philosopher and writer.

Daria Dugina was a media personality in her own right and may have been better known than her father. Her father is not well known imo and is unlikely to have direct influence on Putin anyway. I can't see any reason Ukraine would be involved. Imo there is no benefit to Ukraine from this event and probably not to anyone else either. Exact same if Dugin himself was an intended target.

ezbee

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#2957818 22-Aug-2022 13:48

They were going to be riding together, so it could have been an opportunity to cut both main proponents of Russian Imperialism.

There maybe a lot of people in Moscow FSB/Salaviki/Oligarchy who have lost fortunes and position over Dugan and Daughters genocidal ravings over Ukraine. Bombing in Moscow district would be very difficult unless you have some inside support.

Sending messages Sicilian Mafia style, things need to change soon or ...

The Russian Revolution Failed. Long Live the Revolution!
Where did Russia go wrong? The trouble began before Russia did.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/08/19/the-russian-revolution-failed-long-live-the-revolution-a78610

""
Beginning in 1967, KGB chief Yuri Andropov had been steadily sending his men and women to infiltrate all the government agencies, where they worked as agents of influence within their own state. As a result, by 1991 all ministries, large corporations and monopolies were infiltrated by KGB employees who had only one loyalty: to their agency.

In state organizations, KGB officers set the policies; in private ones, they siphoned off money. The press frequently reported on the so-called 18% tax — a tax that all corporations in the 1990s had to pay into secret KGB accounts. The KGB became something like the Sicilian Mafia — but on the scale of 1/7th of the earth’s land mass. Those who refused to pay, paid with their lives. A series of murders and mysterious deaths began in the mid-1990s. The first one proven to be a murder from a chemical warfare agent and not an accident was the death of banker Ivan Kivelidi, who had been financing democratic political parties (1995).

The genie was out of the bottle. Yeltsin's announcement on December 31, 1999, that he was choosing Vladimir Putin as his successor was the final nail in the coffin of democracy. It marked a change of system of governance. Republics don’t have “successors.” If there is a "successor," it’s a monarchy.
"

neb

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#2957848 22-Aug-2022 14:58

gzt: Daria Dugina was a media personality in her own right and may have been better known than her father. Her father is not well known imo and is unlikely to have direct influence on Putin anyway. I can't see any reason Ukraine would be involved. Imo there is no benefit to Ukraine from this event and probably not to anyone else either. Exact same if Dugin himself was an intended target.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Aleksandr Dugin is sometimes referred to as Putin's Brain, he's the Russian version of Alfred Rosenberg. His "Foundations of Geopolitics", written in the late 1990s, pretty much lays out the rules for Russian foreign policy over the succeeding 20 years, and Putin's rambling pre-invasion speech was either written by Dugin or he was pushing the pen (saying "pulling the strings" when referring to Putin seems a bit wrong, but that speech was Dugin speaking, not Putin).

So the assassination could have been either the Ukrainians trying to remove his influence over Putin or any number of Russians who blamed him for starting the slow self-immolation they're currently in the process of.

kingdragonfly

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#2957868 22-Aug-2022 15:42

Is it a good thing or a bad thing that I never heard of the Nazi Alfred Rosenberg?

On the other hand, I do know the KKK's grand wizard David Duke history intimately. (Oddly Duke has had less involvement with Donald Trump than I expected.)

The Russian Aleksandr Dugin's "Eastern theology and mystical currents" does raise alarm bells.

I'm instantly distrustful of any spiritual rationalization, doubly so when it comes in conflict with science or politics.

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