Ukraine War discussion

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#2966851 13-Sep-2022 20:52

kingdragonfly:
You forgot to mention that this week Russia has been the largest provider of military equipment to Ukrainian forces

Peter Zeihan quote:
"In the case of Izium specifically, that is enough tanks, artillery, ammo, and fuel to supply 10 to 20 000 men, making it the single biggest arms transfer we have seen since world war 2 in the days of lend-lease - it's just that it's from the Russians to the Ukrainians."

Get your business seen overseas - Nexus Translations

Tinkerisk

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#2966890 14-Sep-2022 05:13

shk292:

Tinkerisk:

You didn't really understand about the coordination within the NATO partners, did you?

Yes I do, thanks. 39 years of military service, 22 of them in NATO. I keep in touch with what's going on and it's plain that Germany and France have been found wanting in their support for the international rule of law in this case.

39 years is a lot, but apparently not enough to understand that there are no military obligations towards Ukraine under international law, but there are humanitarian ones, and we are in the front line.

Saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make it any truer. If that's not enough for you, you can sign up for combat duty with the Ukrainians. :-)

Shall we now perhaps open a weapons rental shop as an argumentation booster for warring parties? A fair war doesn‘t exist at all.

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itxtme

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#2966961 14-Sep-2022 09:09

Tinkerisk:

Ukraine is not a member of the EU, not a member of NATO and geographically belongs to Europe.

Germany is not a world leader, we don't even have voting rights at the UN. We are always called world leaders when it comes to paying for damage caused by others. Germany has no weapons that others do not have - especially no nuclear weapons. It's not our job to end another country's war against another country faster - that's the job of the UN. It's frightening how bad general education is these days and has been replaced by Facebook likes/dislikes.

As far as energy is concerned, consumption has long since been reduced, which takes time. We prepare ourselves for tough conditions in winter. How about the world helping out Germany for once and not making populist Sunday speeches without being familiar with the facts? Well, how about we spend the winter with you for free in the summer?

Of course you have voting rights at the General Assembly. Equally of course you do not have voting rights in the security council as this was formed 24th October 1945. Your attitude is flippant around your size and leadership. You have the 4th biggest GDP in the world, biggest in Europe.

Not really sure how the world can help Germany out of the hole it made for itself with cheap energy.

You have skin in the game, whether you like it or not. This is a sentiment felt around the globe, not just here, look inward - not outward, dont be defensive of the indefensible. The German economy is built on the foundations of cheap energy from Russia and fraudulent car emissions data (ok the second one was a low blow 😅). - you were very much warned and choose to ignore it.

Germany may be trying to right the wrongs on energy, to not be held hostage, but in the meantime Ukrainians die. So what could be done to improve their perception around the world?

More weapons, better weapons.

tdgeek

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#2966970 14-Sep-2022 09:12

Good to see UKR pushing Russia back, recovering areas that had ben taken over, long may that continue

ezbee

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#2966979 14-Sep-2022 09:24

Germany is a puzzle as there appears in surveys to be very large support from population.
France with Le Pen etc is a bit more tricky.

Of course the Fascist extreme right and the no less authoritarian extreme left seem to have found fellowship.
Kinda supports the discredited 'Horseshoe' diagram.

Ukraine war: Accounts of Russian torture emerge in liberated areas
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62888388

""
Artem said he could hear screams of pain and terror coming from other cells.

The occupiers made sure the cries could be heard, he said, by turning off the building's noisy ventilation system.

"They turned it off so everyone could hear how people scream when they are shocked with electricity," he told us. "They did this to some of the prisoners every other day... They even did this to the women".
""

kingdragonfly

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#2967988 14-Sep-2022 10:54

Russian denial of the existence of Ukrainian culture and language certainly don't win the hearts and minds of the locals.

The Guardian: Enemy tongue: eastern Ukrainians reject their Russian birth language

Gamlet Zinkivskyi grew up speaking Russian in the city of Kharkiv, just like his parents. But when Vladimir Putin launched the invasion of Ukraine on 24 February, it was the final push for him to switch fully to Ukrainian.

“Unfortunately, I grew up speaking Russian, but it’s not pleasant to speak the same language as the army that is destroying whole areas of our country,” said Zinkivskyi, a 35-year-old street artist widely known to Kharkiv residents, who usually refer to him by his first name.

The switch of language is part of a broader journey towards a more pronounced Ukrainian identity for Zinkivskyi, something shared by many in the largely Russian-speaking areas of east and south Ukraine.
...
France 24: Russian speakers reject the 'language of the enemy' by learning Ukrainian

...All Russian speakers, they are here for the same reason: they want to improve their Ukrainian-language skills. Tatiana admitted finding the Ukrainian alphabet difficult. She has been coming to classes for three years and has made some progress. But “In everyday life, I still use Russian,” she said. Wearing a T-shirt in the colours of the Ukrainian flag, Roxanna said that Russian is her mother tongue. “I learned Ukrainian at school in Donetsk, but it’s not my language of choice. No one ever forced us to speak Ukrainian.”
...

ezbee

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#2967994 14-Sep-2022 11:02

Oh to be a fly on the wall.

Vladimir Putin and China's Xi Jinping will discuss Ukraine and Taiwan at a meeting in Uzbekistan on Thursday.

tdgeek

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#2968003 14-Sep-2022 11:16

ezbee:

Oh to be a fly on the wall.

Vladimir Putin and China's Xi Jinping will discuss Ukraine and Taiwan at a meeting in Uzbekistan on Thursday.

Vlad will do a Trump, and pass on that he's Making Russia Great Again

Tinkerisk

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#2968137 14-Sep-2022 17:33

itxtme:

Of course you have voting rights at the General Assembly. Equally of course you do not have voting rights in the security council as this was formed 24th October 1945.

Stupidly, this is exactly what makes the games with the veto power possible in the first place.

>>> Not really sure how the world can help Germany out of the hole it made for itself with cheap energy. <<<

Come up with something, we have too.

>>> The German economy is built on the foundations of cheap energy. <<<

Mistakes are made, mistakes are corrected. Not learning from mistakes would be stupid. But that still does not oblige us to supply the weapons to external warring parties that we ourselves need to fulfil our NATO obligations.

>>> … but in the meantime Ukrainians die. <<<

That is highly regrettable. Just as unfortunate as people starving to death and nothing being done about it, isn't it? Only they don't make so much noise and don't take your whole hand when you give them your little finger. We are not conceited enough to believe that the world will be healed by Germany and that we can do with weapons what the international community (UN) is failing to do (e.g. by playing veto games).

>>> More weapons, better weapons. <<<

To a soldier who only has a hammer, every problem looks like a nail (btw: I was also once an active flying professional soldier). Sovereign states cannot be told whether to courageously continue the fight for freedom or to give up in order to save lives (which I am not calling for!) - they are free and sovereign in their decisions. We reserve the right to be so with our decisions on how and to what extent we help. Those who have nothing to offer seem to be fine, but should not point at others, should they?

Tinkerisk

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#2968139 14-Sep-2022 17:41

tdgeek:

ezbee:

Oh to be a fly on the wall.

Vladimir Putin and China's Xi Jinping will discuss Ukraine and Taiwan at a meeting in Uzbekistan on Thursday.

Vlad will do a Trump, and pass on that he's Making Russia Great Again

You will hear later in the news that they will have mutually and unequivocally established that Ukraine and Taiwan each belong to them.

gzt

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#2968146 14-Sep-2022 18:03

I think that"s irrational. It is very unlikely that China will recognize any part of Ukraine as territory of Russia.

Tinkerisk

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#2968209 14-Sep-2022 18:12

gzt: I think that"s irrational. It is very unlikely that China will recognize any part of Ukraine as territory of Russia.

Let's wait and see. We also thought it impossible that Trump would become President of the United States of America. We will certainly see what irrational things will be possible and "perceived" as normal in the future. The world is not getting smarter, it is only changing the definition of what is called "smart".

gzt

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#2968213 14-Sep-2022 18:31

Tinkerisk:

>>> The German economy is built on the foundations of cheap energy. <<<

Mistakes are made, mistakes are corrected. Not learning from mistakes would be stupid.

The original deal with the Soviet Union in 1970 provided 10% of Germany's gas needs. That was manageable as intended. The Soviet Union entered Afghanistan in 1979. The deal expansion in 1980 up to 30% may have been questionable at that time. In many ways the situation with the later 2001 expansion was very different.

Tinkerisk

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#2968214 14-Sep-2022 18:34

gzt:
Tinkerisk:

>>> The German economy is built on the foundations of cheap energy. <<<

Mistakes are made, mistakes are corrected. Not learning from mistakes would be stupid.

The original deal with the Soviet Union in 1970 provided 10% of Germany's gas needs. That was manageable as intended. The Soviet Union entered Afghanistan in 1979. The deal expansion in 1980 up to 30% may have been questionable at that time. In many ways the situation with the 2001 expansion was very different.

I'm not saying it wasn't a mistake - I also only have one vote in the election. Have you also looked at the figures for the other EU/exEU countries, which are suspiciously silent (this is more about Russian fuel than gas)?

The EU (including Germany - to take it out of the sights of the gun press) is reducing Russian gas by 2/3 by the end of 2022. The problem with the dependence is the dependence. Do you have a solution for that - we would (theoretically) buy your gas too?

The only benefit of all this shit is that now, finally and inevitably, we have to look around for alternatives and need reductions, whether we like it or not. I am sure that devices will consume less energy and also have to become more efficient. But it could also be the case that we invent and build the perpetuum mobile ;-) through our own efforts, sell it to the entire world in the usual quality and are then put in the spotlight again because some lazy Heinz in the world doesn't like that we are there require resources that he has never thought about raising when buying.

Back to topic.

gzt

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#2968271 14-Sep-2022 19:09

Sorry, I was making a commentary and not opposing anything in particular. In retrospect it was a mistake to quote in that context.

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