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networkn
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  #3030961 2-Feb-2023 14:02
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tdgeek:

 

I agree.

 

No one is being criticised as biased, that's the nature of these threads. These threads are not to persuade anyone, they are just discussions. Stretching the truth as you mentioned, yes everyone will do that, its normal. In my opinion, its not what is said its how it is said. One person here has the same beliefs as you, yet his commentary is very calm and to the point. Not saying you are not calm, and all your other posts in other topics are great. I know that. I've been here a while.  Here, you and others are very passionate, that's a good thing, but sometimes, in MY opinion, it gets too heated and too vocal occasionally. That's all. Nothing more.

 

 

You have repeatedly called me out for bias (one of the most savage attacks I've ever experienced online was you doing so), as have others here, strangely when the lefty people show even stronger and less balanced views, it's crickets.

 

I must admit I potentially misunderstood your accusation of attack attack attack from the right. I thought you were accusing the righties of attacking other posters here. If you are saying I attack the government all the time, sure, I'll wear that all day long. I have a strong moral compass and I despise dishonesty, and I feel this Government has been the most dishonest in modern history in NZ.  What I find disheartening is that when I attack the Government, the lefties here attack *me* and others here because they don't have any defense for what is being said about the government.

 

Having said that, I find it beyond strange you'd suggest the left doesn't attack the right-leaning party, the thread about National was started by someone with an obvious agenda to mock the National Government for their loss, and almost every post there is Schadenfreude on every misfortunate that occurs in the National party regardless if bought it on themselves. It happens here too, no doubt, maybe in greater amounts simply because they are in Government, but to suggest it's a one-way street is crazy talk.

 

I recall a politically astute guy from the US I knew, who voted Obama the first time, but voted Republican the second time, simply because Obama had been hamstrung by having the house and senate taken by the Republicans and they could block everything he did. He liked Obama and believed in him and the policies of the Democrats but felt 4 years of going nowhere was less desirable than 4 years of progress even if it wasn't a direction he believed in. I never understood that until recently.  Even if I disagreed with every policy Labour put forward, which is mostly true, if they had delivered on them, you could at least say we were moving and you could give them credit for delivering on promises.

 

 




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  #3030970 2-Feb-2023 14:34
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networkn:

 

sometimes, in MY opinion, it gets too heated and too vocal occasionally. That's all. Nothing more.

 

 

 

You have repeatedly called me out for bias (one of the most savage attacks I've ever experienced online was you doing so), as have others here, strangely when the lefty people show even stronger and less balanced views, it's crickets.

 

I must admit I potentially misunderstood your accusation of attack attack attack from the right. I thought you were accusing the righties of attacking other posters here. If you are saying I attack the government all the time, sure, I'll wear that all day long. I have a strong moral compass and I despise dishonesty, and I feel this Government has been the most dishonest in modern history in NZ.  What I find disheartening is that when I attack the Government, the lefties here attack *me* and others here because they don't have any defense for what is being said about the government.

 

Having said that, I find it beyond strange you'd suggest the left doesn't attack the right-leaning party, the thread about National was started by someone with an obvious agenda to mock the National Government for their loss, and almost every post there is Schadenfreude on every misfortunate that occurs in the National party regardless if bought it on themselves. It happens here too, no doubt, maybe in greater amounts simply because they are in Government, but to suggest it's a one-way street is crazy talk.

 

I recall a politically astute guy from the US I knew, who voted Obama the first time, but voted Republican the second time, simply because Obama had been hamstrung by having the house and senate taken by the Republicans and they could block everything he did. He liked Obama and believed in him and the policies of the Democrats but felt 4 years of going nowhere was less desirable than 4 years of progress even if it wasn't a direction he believed in. I never understood that until recently.  Even if I disagreed with every policy Labour put forward, which is mostly true, if they had delivered on them, you could at least say we were moving and you could give them credit for delivering on promises.

 

 

 

 

I could say the same in reverse. Sure there are opposing views, you are biased, I am biased, that how it is. Ill be honest, if I say something negative against National it's attacking. If I say something positive about Labour its defensive. That apparently is how useless and shallow lefties are. (my words) If righties do the same its just a critique of Labour and its ok?. Well as I see it, some here are quite hardcore in the "critiques" and bash others for attacking and defending. Unless anyone gets harsh, its fine to critique the other side, debate on that, and its fine to defend your side, debate on that. Often here its a waste of time criticising the right as that's only seen as an attack

 

 

 

I find it beyond strange you'd suggest the left doesn't attack the right-leaning party,

 

I don't recall saying that, but you've hit the nail on the head. You seem to seem that a negative comment on National is an attack. Thats WAY off course and if thats the case there is no point anyone here saying anything if any comment is just attacking. Is it not possible to criticise National without it being seen as an attack? Doesn't seem so. I cannot recall myself or anyone else here "attacking" National. promote or defend your party, either one, and debate it

 

I will stick to my one liner above. Anyone can criticise any party with their opinion


networkn
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  #3030998 2-Feb-2023 16:04
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tdgeek:
 

 

The attacks have been daily here and not from the Centre-Left  Criticism is fine, but hasnt been that common, its basically attack mode. Clearly my perception differs. Yes, I have seen some harsh bite backs from  Labour people. But you seem to make out like its a solid adult discussion of criticism and that results in attacks. Not how I see it. At all.

 

 

Perhaps your definition of 'here' was misunderstood by me, but I assumed you meant GZ, rather than this specific thread, because why would lefties attack the left? Most can barely admit there has been a single failure in this Government or want to minimize it or explain it away. 

 

Perhaps go re-read the National thread, because the gleeful posting from the left over the failures inside the National party have been anything other than constructive. It's almost exclusively laughing at their misfortune. There certainly is an element of that in this thread too, however, when you overpromise and underdeliver for 5+ years, you are bound to come under scrutiny. Add to that the scandals and bumbling and at some stage, people are going to start thinking the whole thing is farcical.

 

In reality, I see some encouraging signs from Hipkins. The trimming of the policies which aren't going well, to focus on what they can actually get done, shows some common sense almost entirely missing during Arderns era in charge (Which I felt was largely due to her lack of people management skills). Having said that, it's too late in my view for that. I see some rumours light rail in Auckland is to be completely abandoned.

 

 

 

You seem to seem that a negative comment on National is an attack. Thats WAY off course and if thats the case there is no point anyone here saying anything if any comment is just attacking.

 

How does that differ on how you perceive any negative comment made against Labour? How is it WAY off course?




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  #3031041 2-Feb-2023 18:51
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networkn:

 

Perhaps your definition of 'here' was misunderstood by me, but I assumed you meant GZ, rather than this specific thread, because why would lefties attack the left? Most can barely admit there has been a single failure in this Government or want to minimize it or explain it away. 

 

Perhaps go re-read the National thread, because the gleeful posting from the left over the failures inside the National party have been anything other than constructive. It's almost exclusively laughing at their misfortune. There certainly is an element of that in this thread too, however, c

 

In reality, I see some encouraging signs from Hipkins. The trimming of the policies which aren't going well, to focus on what they can actually get done, shows some common sense almost entirely missing during Arderns era in charge (Which I felt was largely due to her lack of people management skills). Having said that, it's too late in my view for that. I see some rumours light rail in Auckland is to be completely abandoned.

 

 

 

You seem to seem that a negative comment on National is an attack. Thats WAY off course and if thats the case there is no point anyone here saying anything if any comment is just attacking.

 

How does that differ on how you perceive any negative comment made against Labour? How is it WAY off course?

 

 

This is my last attempt. Here comes tdgeek blunt

 

This thread has what you call lefties and righties. All biased. Lefties and righties is a gross misnomer but thats ok, you mentiioned both so all fine

 

Most can barely admit there has been a single failure in this Government

 

Thats BS, pure and simple

 

 because the gleeful posting from the left over the failures inside the National pup, call them outarty have been anything other than constructive.

 

Examples? No, I dont expect you to trawl the threads but this is getting silly. If you feel someone is "attacking" or defending" without backup, call them out. Myself included

 

 because the gleeful posting from the left over the failures inside the National party have been anything other than constructive. Obviously. If you govern with no or next to no policies, then you avoid that? Yes you do. National early 2000's and 2017. Ideological.

 

In reality, I see some encouraging signs from Hipkins. You labelled him as "moderately capable" Thats ok, its bias which we ALL have. From what Ive seen in the media, he is respected from both sides

 

almost entirely missing during Arderns era in charge (Which I felt was largely due to her lack of people management skills)  She had and has skills. Like JK during the EQ's a calming voice. Although the result was worse. The previous PM has major skills, but as we all can see NOW, the desires exceeded the reality. Id rather have someone with desires than not. In any case that is resolved with the new PM who may or may not push forward.

 

How does that differ on how you perceive any negative comment made against Labour? How is it WAY off course? Who said that its off course? Labour governs, you are accountable, she is gone. Im quite familiar with anti Labour comments, many of which are justified, and when you govern AND you make policies, you are measured. If you make zero or few policies, you avoid that, ideology, aka marketing.

 

 

 

Every now and then I see these inflammatory situations. Recently one commented that your posts are posted as factual but they are in fact opinions. Every now and then I try to pacify this stuff. A not long post, hey we are all biased, lets discuss, or words to that effect. But nothing changes. There are others here with your National slant, they seem to have no issues with discussions without being harsh and blunt. Id like to think I am the same, yet I perceive I am seen as a poor, leftie who hates National (my words) FAR from the truth. Ive voted National and Labour evenly now after the last 2 elections (where in 2017 I was voting Peters up to the last minute at Aidanfield School, just to keep a check on leftie Labour) You are VERY passionate about National, we all get that, no issue at all. Im a not passionate about any party, but I am passionate about Kiwi politics. Personally and financially whoever wins doesnt bother me

 

But I will not be treated like an antagonistic Labour hardcore fanboy. We can all give examples off National and Labour being idiots, lying, concealing, failing. But if these "discussions" are all rant and bag, I'm over it. There are plenty of National people here who can discuss, even though we may disagree, but it remains civil. But I am over it. I wont be Last Word Larry, but I have no need to reply to your posts here, as thats possibly just another escalation. 

 

The pity is, that I am a very nice person, and are you based on your many post here outside of these threads. But I am over it, you post what you want as will I

 

My longest post ever, in not a good way, but thats ok.

 

 

 

 

 

 


networkn
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  #3031283 3-Feb-2023 14:06
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I see the Government has again raided the 'COVID' fund (for $700M+), this time to fund the fuel tax rebate and transport subsidy. This despite saying repeatedly they would use that money exclusively for COVID.

 

 

 

 


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  #3031304 3-Feb-2023 14:39
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It doesn't sound like sound financial management.

 

 


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  #3031584 4-Feb-2023 08:15
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networkn:

I see the Government has again raided the 'COVID' fund (for $700M+), this time to fund the fuel tax rebate and transport subsidy. This despite saying repeatedly they would use that money exclusively for COVID.


 


 



I guess that's the price we pay for keeping the fuel excise off. I do wonder if it would be better to gradually reintroduce it over a couple of months.

 
 
 

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  #3031637 4-Feb-2023 09:00
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Well, considering GR categorically stated December was the last rebate and then they have walked that back as well seems like BAU. Vote buying at it's best. Be damned the long term consequences with any luck it won't be their problem to worry about in October anyway.

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  #3031651 4-Feb-2023 09:47
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mudguard:

I guess that's the price we pay for keeping the fuel excise off. I do wonder if it would be better to gradually reintroduce it over a couple of months.

 

I assume the consensus is that the fuel excise subsidy was in itself, always a bad idea? Ive never agreed with it. It was just a measure to help people's cost of living issues. A Nov video I just watched shows Adern saying it will be assessed closer to January and that 81% of people want it kept in. If it was a sound idea to help the people, it really doesn't matter if it stays in longer or not. If the cost of living issues we have are improving then it can go off, but that doesnt seem to be the case. If other measures were put in place to help people, then that will cost as well, so it really doesnt matter what Excel column the cost is drawn from, its a taxpayer cost no matter how you assess it.  Are there better ways to help people with cost of living issues, or is it better we just suck it up, it will sort itself out in due course? Thats my personal view.


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  #3031683 4-Feb-2023 11:00
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tdgeek:

 

mudguard:

I guess that's the price we pay for keeping the fuel excise off. I do wonder if it would be better to gradually reintroduce it over a couple of months.

 

I assume the consensus is that the fuel excise subsidy was in itself, always a bad idea? Ive never agreed with it. 

 

 

 

 

My first thought would be it was going to be a very difficult genie to put back in the bottle. I have this constant debate with my work colleague. We both get reimbursed per kilometre for our jobs, every time the price eeks up, he's oh why doesn't work adjust it? And I say, what would you do when the price drops and they drop the rate then? 


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  #3031688 4-Feb-2023 11:17
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mudguard:

 

 

 

My first thought would be it was going to be a very difficult genie to put back in the bottle. I have this constant debate with my work colleague. We both get reimbursed per kilometre for our jobs, every time the price eeks up, he's oh why doesn't work adjust it? And I say, what would you do when the price drops and they drop the rate then? 

 

 

Yep, thats a flaw. Same for EV owners, although they are paying around 30c per litre equivalent so they effectively bought their own subsidy. Lower income people who dont drive or limit driving to save fuel costs, they dont benefit, or just a little. Apart from "hopeful" lower increases in goods that get transported, which is most.

 

Drop fuel by 25c, great. Put it back, you are evil, bit of a poisoned chalice. Both major parties want to help people battle the cost of living crisis, both in different ways off course, but not easy to get an equitable solution. I guess the question is, should taxpayers be temporary paying for measures such as this? This is the Chris Hipkins thread, so while I accept that Robertson has backtracked, he actually hasnt. New leader, new direction , its a reset so whatever existed a couple of weeks ago is off the table. That's Chris Hipkins choice from now on with his clean slate.

 

I dont quite buy, where is the money coming from that National and ACT ask. Either assistance is provided for a period or its not. No matter what it is or who did it, there is a cost. Or we dont do anything, thats an option. Tax cuts are no help, as I assume they would kick in 1 April 2024. Unsure if Labour could bring in a tax change by 1 Apr 2023. Maybe too late. I'm not aware what ACT and National would do, unsure if they have detailed that or not

 

 


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  #3031756 4-Feb-2023 14:46
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/131148031/prime-minister-chris-hipkins-wont-be-speaking-at-waitangi-pwhiri

 

This is an interesting development. If JA was still PM would she have been speaking this year does anyone know?

 

 


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  #3031759 4-Feb-2023 15:08
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According to this

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/131148031/prime-minister-chris-hipkins-wont-be-speaking-at-waitangi-pwhiri

 

She will be speaking. All leaders cannot speak party politics. One would assume she will be talking non political things, but to be honest how do you talk Maori and Treaty matters without them being even subtly political?


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  #3031766 4-Feb-2023 15:24
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tdgeek:

 

According to this

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/131148031/prime-minister-chris-hipkins-wont-be-speaking-at-waitangi-pwhiri

 

She will be speaking. All leaders cannot speak party politics. One would assume she will be talking non political things, but to be honest how do you talk Maori and Treaty matters without them being even subtly political?

 

 

I agree pretty hard to go to Waitangi and speak and not have some political context. 

 

Not sure if you think Ardern will be speaking based on this: 

 

Former prime minister Jacinda Ardern was given special speaking rights at Waitangi.

 

I take that to mean she had previously been given speaking rights, not that she will speak this year. Not sure what purpose it would serve given she is no longer going to be an MP?

 

 


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  #3031802 4-Feb-2023 17:28
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Hipkins is not speaking. Luxon is. Supposed to be not overly political, in te reo.

 

 


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