Ukraine War discussion

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#3037820 16-Feb-2023 17:56

itxtme:

Tinkerisk:

Perhaps shooting training will help prevent Ukraine from firing the ammunition provided by the EU faster than it can be replenished?

When you have limited means of defence on a line that is 2500km long and receiving currently 12000 rounds of artillery against you every day - with you returning around 5000 (most of which is not precision based) I don't know what you expect them to do? I always find your replies in regards to Ukraine smug and arrogant. Ultimately even you must see how unjust this war is? Ramp up production, provide better weapons. Germany has come a long way from 5000 helmets, but can always go further.

I'm sorry I don't agree with your assessment of Tinkerisk's replies about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I've been following various online sites/discussions on the Ukrainian situation and I think his replies are pretty well straight down the line.

Also your comments about the German contribution are off the mark and are frankly insulting. The Germans have done a lot of things other than provide hardware. For one, as far as I know they have taken in far more refugees per capita than other countries.

As far as going further, that statement can be applied to every country that purports to support Ukraine, New Zealand included.

For most European countries especially those that were behind the iron curtain there's a fair mix of support and in some cases non support of Ukraine. A hang over from the days of Soviet control. The Russians still weild a fair bit of influence through many devious means and are able to sway public opinion or stir up discontent. For example the recent Quran burning in Sweden was organised by the Russian's to stir up the Muslims in Sweden/Europe.

Thus many European governments walk a fine line when providing support for Ukraine.

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itxtme

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#3037905 16-Feb-2023 19:51

Technofreak:

I'm sorry I don't agree with your assessment of Tinkerisk's replies about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I've been following various online sites/discussions on the Ukrainian situation and I think his replies are pretty well straight down the line.

Also your comments about the German contribution are off the mark and are frankly insulting. The Germans have done a lot of things other than provide hardware. For one, as far as I know they have taken in far more refugees per capita than other countries.

You can disagree but I'll call out bad behaviour when I see it and suggesting the Ukrainian army need target practice given the realities of the situation is poor form. Also I was by no means calling out Germans, just this poster, and his slow government. We have already discussed a lot around refugees, so at risk of rinsing and repeating myself, we can pat ourselves on the back all we want for this, and it is commendable (feel free to read back, I have commended) but there will be no refugees if Russia goes home. The only thing that will make them go home, are weapons and more of them. Well either that or giving Ukraine to Russia, and as you may have guessed I am not a fan of that idea.

BTW as someone who shows interest, if you want a European worth listening to I highly recommend Thomas Theiner https://twitter.com/noclador, a trove of knowledge and expertise

ezbee

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#3037943 16-Feb-2023 21:38

Current Time Magazine.
https://time.com/6255183/ukraine-basement-yahidne-held-captive/

""
Seven days after the invasion of Ukraine, Russian troops entered the village of Yahidne. They forced the residents out of their homes and into the basement of the local school, which they had turned into their headquarters. Until they withdrew on March 30, 2022, the Russians kept almost the entire population of Yahidne—more than 360 people, including children and the elderly—in that basement for nearly a month.

It was so cramped, people had to sleep sitting up. Instead of a toilet, there were buckets. Food had to be foraged. There was no ventilation, so the oldest went crazy and died. The Russians did not allow the dead to be buried immediately, and when they finally did, they fired on the funeral.
""

Tinkerisk

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#3037961 16-Feb-2023 22:27

neb: Never had any problems getting .223 in the US, it's slightly less powerful than proper NATO 5.56 but otherwise works fine.

Military versions of the .223 REM are designed for heavier bullets and have a twist length that you can't shoot optimally with lighter, hunting ammunition despite it fits into the barrel.

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neb

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#3037963 16-Feb-2023 22:34

Tinkerisk:
neb: Never had any problems getting .223 in the US, it's slightly less powerful than proper NATO 5.56 but otherwise works fine.

Military versions of the .223 REM are designed for heavier bullets and have a twist length that you can't shoot optimally with lighter, hunting ammunition despite it fits into the barrel.

Sure, we were just exploding watermelons and, um, other stuff so the fact that they weren't proper SS109's didn't make any difference.

(You know you're in redneckistan when you go to the supermarket and buy a bunch of watermelons and the checkout lady says "going shooting huh?").

Tinkerisk

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#3037965 16-Feb-2023 22:39

itxtme:

Tinkerisk:

Perhaps shooting training will help prevent Ukraine from firing the ammunition provided by the EU faster than it can be replenished?

I always find your replies in regards to Ukraine smug and arrogant. Ultimately even you must see how unjust this war is?

You know, if you have NOTHING significant to show or fear, you shouldn't send your neighbor to the front. We do what we can, not what a insignificant, uninformed fellow on the other side of the world dreams up. How do you always come up with the narrow plank that we Germans have something to make up for here that every other nation on this earth does not have to make up for in its history? This is not our war and if it goes too slowly for you, cannon fodder is always needed. Because, you can neither build nor deliver nor pay for cannons and ammunition for Ukraine.

By the way, what do you have in mind as a personal aid package for the families of the more than 30,000 victims of the earthquake last week in Turkey and Syria, or are you just a double-moral paper tiger? I think, now it's time to get out of the TV and newspaper chair for your turn to save the world! By the way, I find it arrogant to bite a helping hand as a bystander.

Tinkerisk

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#3037970 16-Feb-2023 23:07

neb: Sure, we were just exploding watermelons and, um, other stuff so the fact that they weren't proper SS109's didn't make any difference. (You know you're in redneckistan when you go to the supermarket and buy a bunch of watermelons and the checkout lady says "going shooting huh?").

With a properly tuned barrel/ammunition, you can shoot very accurately even with this relatively small caliber.

BTW, here you do not get firearms or ammunition in a supermarket, but only on presentation of appropriate evidence and permits at approved specialty stores and they are mostly located in cities.

Kyanar

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#3037976 17-Feb-2023 00:57

Tinkerisk:

This is not our war and if it goes too slowly for you, cannon fodder is always needed. Because, you can neither build nor deliver nor pay for cannons and ammunition for Ukraine.

You know, I must admit I had more sympathy for you before you broadcasted so aptly that you're an arrogant so-and-so. Before this post, you seemed like a person who just had an opinion on the relative contributions of various nations. Now, you just seem like a Russian sympathising negative individual.

Do better.

Rikkitic

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#3037978 17-Feb-2023 01:31

Kyanar:

Tinkerisk:

This is not our war and if it goes too slowly for you, cannon fodder is always needed. Because, you can neither build nor deliver nor pay for cannons and ammunition for Ukraine.

You know, I must admit I had more sympathy for you before you broadcasted so aptly that you're an arrogant so-and-so. Before this post, you seemed like a person who just had an opinion on the relative contributions of various nations. Now, you just seem like a Russian sympathising negative individual.

Do better.

If you guys insist on going down this unpleasant path, it would be better to take it to direct mail.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Tinkerisk

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#3037988 17-Feb-2023 05:14

Rikkitic:

If you guys insist on going down this unpleasant path, it would be better to take it to direct mail.

Thank you, I would like to duel mentally, but I see that the boys are unarmed and my time is too precious. 😉

freitasm

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#3038004 17-Feb-2023 08:19

Kyanar:
Tinkerisk:

This is not our war and if it goes too slowly for you, cannon fodder is always needed. Because, you can neither build nor deliver nor pay for cannons and ammunition for Ukraine.

You know, I must admit I had more sympathy for you before you broadcasted so aptly that you're an arrogant so-and-so. Before this post, you seemed like a person who just had an opinion on the relative contributions of various nations. Now, you just seem like a Russian sympathising negative individual.

Do better.

I had the opposite impression and I don't see a Russian sympathiser at all.

itxtme

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#3038033 17-Feb-2023 09:50

freitasm:

I had the opposite impression and I don't see a Russian sympathiser at all.

I would agree, he hasn't said anything sympathising. But he has been incredibly arrogant and he has in his last couple of posts even suggested that his "superior" intelligence trumps any point of push back and also suggested that I should go and die in Ukraine rather than express an opinion that is at odds with his.

ezbee

2405 posts

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#3038169 17-Feb-2023 14:44

Meantime in Russia windows continue to be a health hazard.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11758535/Top-Putin-defence-official-58-plunges-160ft-death-16th-floor-tower-block-window.html

""
Top Putin defence official, 58, plunges 160ft to her death from 16th-floor tower block window - the latest high-ranking figure to die in a mysterious fall
Marina Yankina, 58, was discovered by a passerby at the entrance of a house
She was a key figure in the funding of Vladimir Putin's illegal war in Ukraine
""

A far more suspicious death is
Major General Vladimir Makarov, 67, was in charge of 'combatting extremism' in Russia and was found shot dead on Monday morning. Police said he died by suicide.
No window being involved ?

Oh...
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/02/15/viagra-maker-halts-russia-deliveries-a80234

""
Other studies cited by the Kommersant business daily say Russians bought 2.7 million erectile dysfunction pills in mid-2022, an 88% jump from the same time in 2021.
""
There are generics however, and trade with other countries making them.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/02/02/the-risks-of-russias-growing-dependence-on-the-yuan-a80127

elpenguino

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#3038170 17-Feb-2023 14:48

itxtme:

freitasm:

I had the opposite impression and I don't see a Russian sympathiser at all.

I would agree, he hasn't said anything sympathising. But he has been incredibly arrogant and he has in his last couple of posts even suggested that his "superior" intelligence trumps any point of push back and also suggested that I should go and die in Ukraine rather than express an opinion that is at odds with his.

Might be lost in translation there but my take was 'you' = NZ (government I presume). As in, NZ cant build / supply artillery etc etc.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

Tinkerisk

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#3038184 17-Feb-2023 15:02

elpenguino:

Might be lost in translation there but my take was 'you' = NZ (government I presume). As in, NZ cant build / supply artillery etc etc.

I think "a fellow on the other side of the world" is pretty clear, right? But if you (singular) want to put on the shoe, I certainly won't stop you (singular).

I am not a friend of generalization.

And just as all Americans are no Trump supporters, not all Russians are Putin supporters, or not all North Koreans are fans of Kim, or ... [put here what you like]? A war is not a video game or a Facebook/Twitter poll ... there are fates behind it on both sides and I sympathize with the people on a small scale. Anyone who knows that a war is the highest self-assertion of a country and an act of violence to impose its will on his opponent. Since a war only begins with the defense of the attacked, it is clear that without this defense there would be no armed struggle at all. The "purpose" of the war, i.e. the will to be fulfilled, is determined by politics. So it is the decision and responsibility of the Ukrainian government alone, how much it expects from its own people for their freedom. This must be said once CLEARLY. You can't piss on the leg of a giant without knowing exactly what your forces are and then blame third parties for what is happening in this war. One can and should support the intentions and the desire for freedom of the Ukrainians, but in no case a total warfare.

Tinkerisk (personal opinion, ex Sqn Ldr GAF)

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