NZ Prime Minister John Key Resigns

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#1684448 8-Dec-2016 09:29

frankv:

There's no need for 60 list MPs. I think MMP is a good thing, and it was a scam to use its introduction as an excuse (a) to increase Parliamentary seats to 120+, and (b) to give so much voting power to the Party Faithful as opposed to the People's Representatives.

I don't see why we need list MPs at all. List MPs have to vote on party lines, so are functionally just extra votes given to the party leader.

If a party has <10 electorate MPs, allow them up to 10 list MPs in accordance with their share of votes. That allows a few actual people on the ground to do political work.

Additional influence in parliament would be by way of extra votes. That's not miles away form how it works now, where party whips can use wield votes for their party.

Under such a system the greens would have 10 MPs and 4 additional votes. National would have 41 MPs and 19 additional votes. That's 23 less MPs right there. It Such system would also make it difficult to become a minister without winning and electorate.

Mike

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#1684449 8-Dec-2016 09:30

frankv:

Right. But there's no need for 60 list MPs. I think MMP is a good thing, and it was a scam to use its introduction as an excuse (a) to increase Parliamentary seats to 120+, and (b) to give so much voting power to the Party Faithful as opposed to the People's Representatives.

You mustn't have much to do with any MPs to be saying that.

Reality just does not line up with what you describe here. My experience has been that the list MPs are the one's who have the time and will listen because they want to win your vote. It's local party hack who will blow you off....

As for 120 MPs, the Parliament needed to be bigger. With 20-odd in the Cabinet, you can't go back to the Muldoon days where there were more Ministers than backbenchers......that just didn't work. It made the backbenchers useless rubber stamps for the Cabinet.

Also....those MPs do actually represent - whether list or local - so I see no value in crippling our democracy and limiting our access to our representatives (because there aren't enough of them) to save a few dollars.

This was all discussed 25 years ago. Where have you been?

Plus...as we see in the US...when one rep has too many people to represent, they just represent the people with money. No need to go there.

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#1684488 8-Dec-2016 10:21

Linuxluver:
As for 120 MPs, the Parliament needed to be bigger. With 20-odd in the Cabinet, you can't go back to the Muldoon days where there were more Ministers than backbenchers......that just didn't work. It made the backbenchers useless rubber stamps for the Cabinet.

Those list MPs have to vote along party lines. Unless they are in cabinet they are rubber stamps. Actual rubber stamps would be as effective and cheaper.

Linuxluver:
This was all discussed 25 years ago. Where have you been?

Yes MMP was discussed 25 years go, but that does not mean we shouldn't review/tweak it. Speaking for myself I was under voting age, but aware of and opposed to MMP, which I thought at the time would result in moderated but inefficient government. Anyone between 18 and 53 is a current potential voter who didn't get to participate in that decision.

Linuxluver:
Plus...as we see in the US...when one rep has too many people to represent, they just represent the people with money. No need to go there.

You think that doesn't happen here? Every party represents the interest of their donors. The donors may care passionately about issue x, a few individual MPs may but the party has simply found a market niche.

Mike

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#1684492 8-Dec-2016 10:32

Linuxluver:

My experience has been that the list MPs are the one's who have the time and will listen because they want to win your vote. It's local party hack who will blow you off....

I can only comment on my electorate and the adjacent one where I observe we have two very hard working, approachable local electorate MPs. One national one labour. Our most recent labour list MP had a similar approach.

I think it depends more on the individual person than how they got into parliament.

Mike

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#1684536 8-Dec-2016 11:53

Isnt this a bit off topic now?

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#1684585 8-Dec-2016 12:46

I can't claim to know much about either Paula Bennett or Simon Bridges per se, I thought that PB did really really well in this mini video clip, in deflecting a series of potentially unpleasant questions, pretty well.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/319812/bridges-and-bennett-to-compete-for-deputy-pm

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#1684645 8-Dec-2016 13:51

Judith Collins has left the race.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1684647 8-Dec-2016 13:59

MikeB4:

Judith Collins has left the race.

She has done the right thing, and in a classy way, I have hope for her yet! I am keen for it to be a English/Bennett.

I think the National Party have handled this nicely.

Simon Bridges could have been a little less inflammatory, but I guess he speaks his mind.

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#1684650 8-Dec-2016 14:01

networkn:

MikeB4:

Judith Collins has left the race.

She has done the right thing, and in a classy way, I have hope for her yet! I am keen for it to be a English/Bennett.

I think the National Party have handled this nicely.

Simon Bridges could have been a little less inflammatory, but I guess he speaks his mind.

Agreed.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1684665 8-Dec-2016 14:33

MikeB4:

Judith Collins has left the race.

You mean she has returned to Quark 7, planet of the Lizard People?

Oh - you didn't mean human race...sorry!

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#1684670 8-Dec-2016 14:48

MikeB4:

Judith Collins has left the race.

Thank God it's not going to be like the US Presidential race. The Nats are down to a choice between a grey faceless monetarist status quo and a grey faceless monetarist new guy.

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#1684671 8-Dec-2016 14:49

frankv:

MikeB4:

Judith Collins has left the race.

Thank God it's not going to be like the US Presidential race. The Nats are down to a choice between a grey faceless monetarist status quo and a grey faceless monetarist new guy.

Don't you ever stop?

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#1684676 8-Dec-2016 15:12

networkn:

frankv:

MikeB4:

Judith Collins has left the race.

Thank God it's not going to be like the US Presidential race. The Nats are down to a choice between a grey faceless monetarist status quo and a grey faceless monetarist new guy.

Don't you ever stop?

Stop what?

MikeB4

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#1684765 8-Dec-2016 17:08

Mr Coleman has bowed out so its Mr English as PM, very good lets hope it stays that way now until well after the election

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1684769 8-Dec-2016 17:17

frankv:

MikeB4:

Judith Collins has left the race.

Thank God it's not going to be like the US Presidential race. The Nats are down to a choice between a grey faceless monetarist status quo and a grey faceless monetarist new guy.

I wonder if the reason for Key's departure was around tax cuts, which Key has been pretty keen on as a main objective. He'd have been very happy to deliver them too - on the back of the latest treasury forecasts, but I suspect that would have backfired politically in the present environment.

And now we have English promising instead to spend - and to spend quite a lot, on infrastructure, health, education.

So what are Labour's policies? I think they've been taken - well they'll be left arguing about what the spending should be on, but English just stole their headline.

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