Housing Announcement and Reforms 23/03/2021

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#2684082 30-Mar-2021 14:51

There seems to be a widespread view, which is apparent by some posters in this thread, that pointing out the potential problems with the Governments proposal is the same as saying "screw FHBs, and leave investors alone". It really isn't.

I'm not a renter, a FHB, or an investor - and the first thing that crossed my mind when I read about the changes was "landlords will just increase rents".

The problem is supply and demand. Labour (and previous governments) have either been unable or unwilling to sort the supply, so now they're trying to reduce demand instead. In my (admittedly limited) view, the approach they've taken won't work and will result in a lot of losers and very few winners.

Disagreeing with a proposed solution isn't the same thing as saying there isn't a problem.

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#2684085 30-Mar-2021 14:59

Paul1977:

There seems to be a widespread view, which is apparent by some posters in this thread, that pointing out the potential problems with the Governments proposal is the same as saying "screw FHBs, and leave investors alone". It really isn't.

I'm not a renter, a FHB, or an investor - and the first thing that crossed my mind when I read about the changes was "landlords will just increase rents".

The problem is supply and demand. Labour (and previous governments) have either been unable or unwilling to sort the supply, so now they're trying to reduce demand instead. In my (admittedly limited) view, the approach they've taken won't work and will result in a lot of losers and very few winners.

Disagreeing with a proposed solution isn't the same thing as saying there isn't a problem.

How can a Govt increase the supply?

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#2684086 30-Mar-2021 15:01

Paul1977:

I'm not a renter, a FHB, or an investor - and the first thing that crossed my mind when I read about the changes was "landlords will just increase rents".

Oh they absolutely will. That was never in any doubt in my opinion. I mean, if I think McDs is too expensive, I can go to BK. If I think all hamburgers are too expensive, I can just not have hamburgers. But when costs go up for all landlords across the board then why would they not raise rents to compensate? What're their tenants going to do - buy a house?

However, in the long run it is the right thing to do as discouraging investors is for sure one aspect of the complicated solution to a complicated problem. And it was a necessary first step too as putting more houses on the market is pointless if investors buy them all before FHBs get a chance to.

I think there are other things they should have done too - I would have put a sinking lid cap on the number of investment properties you can own, for example. You're free to keep whatever you have so there's no crash in the market which hurts everyone, but if you sell, you can't buy another. You're allowed one investment property, and that's it.

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#2684088 30-Mar-2021 15:04

tdgeek:

How can a Govt increase the supply?

Remove rules which make it difficult or impossible to intensify housing in established areas over NIMBY objections, free up funds to help pay for new infrastructure required in greenfields areas or upgraded infrastructure in intensifying areas, aggressively tax unused land, address the materials monopoly issue, or even build some houses themselves.

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#2684091 30-Mar-2021 15:09

tdgeek:

How can a Govt increase the supply?

The only way to do it is to making building easier and more affordable, how to achieve this is above my pay grade. I don't have a good solution, but that doesn't mean I can't recognise a bad one.

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#2684093 30-Mar-2021 15:12

SaltyNZ:

tdgeek:

How can a Govt increase the supply?

Remove rules which make it difficult or impossible to intensify housing in established areas over NIMBY objections, free up funds to help pay for new infrastructure required in greenfields areas or upgraded infrastructure in intensifying areas, aggressively tax unused land, address the materials monopoly issue, or even build some houses themselves.

Yep, all those things. I was waiting for the Govt must build more houses argument from Paul. IMO a key factor is that people build houses via a builder. Its much easier to buy, and cheaper as a used house is cheaper than a new house. You really need to steer people to builds than buy. I know a couple of people that built and never again. But also one that only builds. We need incentives to build, if we want to get there

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#2684094 30-Mar-2021 15:14

Paul1977:

tdgeek:

How can a Govt increase the supply?

The only way to do it is to making building easier and more affordable, how to achieve this is above my pay grade. I don't have a good solution, but that doesn't mean I can't recognise a bad one.

Easier yes, more affordable I doubt it. RMA wont make houses 200k cheaper.

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#2684096 30-Mar-2021 15:16

tdgeek: I was waiting for the Govt must build more houses argument from Paul....

I think the Kiwibuild disaster proved that's not a great solution.

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#2684097 30-Mar-2021 15:17

tdgeek:

I know a couple of people that built and never again.

We just rebuilt our house. And although it was a pretty smooth experience compared to how I'm sure they can go, it isn't something I'd want to repeat. Might be different if I was building a rental instead of a forever-home, because I could fit it out with decent-but-not-exactly-what-I-want stuff. But god help me if I ever have to decide on flooring or the exact shape of the bathroom taps ever again.

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#2684098 30-Mar-2021 15:22

SaltyNZ:

We just rebuilt our house. And although it was a pretty smooth experience compared to how I'm sure they can go, it isn't something I'd want to repeat. Might be different if I was building a rental instead of a forever-home, because I could fit it out with decent-but-not-exactly-what-I-want stuff. But god help me if I ever have to decide on flooring or the exact shape of the bathroom taps ever again.

Ive never built, but if I had/did, I'm sure it would be I'm glad we did this, but never again! But, if you go in eyes open, and have a qood company, maybe its not bad

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#2684099 30-Mar-2021 15:27

tdgeek:

SaltyNZ:

We just rebuilt our house. And although it was a pretty smooth experience compared to how I'm sure they can go, it isn't something I'd want to repeat. Might be different if I was building a rental instead of a forever-home, because I could fit it out with decent-but-not-exactly-what-I-want stuff. But god help me if I ever have to decide on flooring or the exact shape of the bathroom taps ever again.

Ive never built, but if I had/did, I'm sure it would be I'm glad we did this, but never again! But, if you go in eyes open, and have a qood company, maybe its not bad

The builder was great (True Property Builders, if you're looking for one in the Auckland north region). Getting excited about tapware is just something I really need to be in the mood for.

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#2684100 30-Mar-2021 15:28

Paul1977:

tdgeek: I was waiting for the Govt must build more houses argument from Paul....

I think the Kiwibuild disaster proved that's not a great solution.

Two things

1. It was already unaffordable

2. How many of them are NEW builds (was going to buy but we built), and how many of those 700 people would have built anyway?

They seemed to just relabel builds as Kiwibuild in many cases.

Either, we heavily incentivise new builds at the expense of existing sales, such as the EV plan was to be, or the Government(s) of 2021 and beyond create a build project. This 3.8B infrastructure assistance could be good. IF they worked with developers and Councils to expand every town in NZ. Make this an ongoing part of NZ. Never happened before, except post WW2 and post Great Depression.

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#2684109 30-Mar-2021 15:34

We'd be better off intensifying, in my opinion. Otherwise we're going to build houses on top of our farms and have nothing to eat. It's already started out Pukekohe way.

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#2684162 30-Mar-2021 15:55

tdgeek:

Paul1977:

There seems to be a widespread view, which is apparent by some posters in this thread, that pointing out the potential problems with the Governments proposal is the same as saying "screw FHBs, and leave investors alone". It really isn't.

I'm not a renter, a FHB, or an investor - and the first thing that crossed my mind when I read about the changes was "landlords will just increase rents".

The problem is supply and demand. Labour (and previous governments) have either been unable or unwilling to sort the supply, so now they're trying to reduce demand instead. In my (admittedly limited) view, the approach they've taken won't work and will result in a lot of losers and very few winners.

Disagreeing with a proposed solution isn't the same thing as saying there isn't a problem.

How can a Govt increase the supply?

By them being the developer and building houses, units, etc.

State houses were done that way.

Handle9

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#2684170 30-Mar-2021 16:03

Paul1977:
There seems to be a widespread view, which is apparent by some posters in this thread, that pointing out the potential problems with the Governments proposal is the same as saying "screw FHBs, and leave investors alone". It really isn't.

I'm not a renter, a FHB, or an investor - and the first thing that crossed my mind when I read about the changes was "landlords will just increase rents".

The problem is supply and demand. Labour (and previous governments) have either been unable or unwilling to sort the supply, so now they're trying to reduce demand instead. In my (admittedly limited) view, the approach they've taken won't work and will result in a lot of losers and very few winners.

Disagreeing with a proposed solution isn't the same thing as saying there isn't a problem.

They are doing both. The NPS UD was the first step and RMA reform is the next step

Neither are fast fixes and there is an urgent need to slow down the feeding frenzy, particularly by investors.

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