Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#3269531 8-Aug-2024 15:56

SaltyNZ:

Handle9:

I think it’s widely accepted that New Zealand First and ACT First constantly play the race card in the culture wars. I think overall National are fairly indifferent and would like it all to go away but they’re the partners they have to deal with.

National doesn't have to deal with them. Luxon simply wanted to be Prime Minister more than he wanted to be principled.

Like that old saying (paraphrased), "If you got a table with ten people and one racist, you got 11 racists at that table."

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#3269543 8-Aug-2024 16:54

SaltyNZ:
Handle9:

I think it’s widely accepted that New Zealand First and ACT First constantly play the race card in the culture wars. I think overall National are fairly indifferent and would like it all to go away but they’re the partners they have to deal with.

National doesn't have to deal with them. Luxon simply wanted to be Prime Minister more than he wanted to be principled.

Luxon dealt with what he had. Every other party leader would have done the same in his circumstances. The Greens and Labour were more than happy enough to get into bed with Winston in 2017 and would do so again to get into power.

sen8or

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#3269553 8-Aug-2024 17:12

Credit where its due, Hipkins said he wouldn't deal with Winston. Now that may have been after Winston said he wouldn't deal with Labour, so a moot point, but at face value for Hipkins, he was prepared to draw a line in the sand. Now if things were tight and labour actually had the opportunity to do a deal to get back into power, we may or may not have seen a different stance, we can only speculate.

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#3269561 8-Aug-2024 17:31

sen8or:
Credit where its due, Hipkins said he wouldn't deal with Winston. Now that may have been after Winston said he wouldn't deal with Labour, so a moot point, but at face value for Hipkins, he was prepared to draw a line in the sand. Now if things were tight and labour actually had the opportunity to do a deal to get back into power, we may or may not have seen a different stance, we can only speculate.

MMP requires compromise in line with what party gets what proportion of the vote. The parties outside of government will all rail about how evil the current governing party is but once it’s time to make a deal pragmatism wins out. It’s how the system was designed.

To be fair to all the parties “principle” accomplishes nothing for your supporters. You don’t get to implement your agenda at all as opposed to being able to do the things you see as most important.

It’s an imperfect system but so are all the others.

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#3269564 8-Aug-2024 17:49

Handle9:
sen8or:

Credit where its due, Hipkins said he wouldn't deal with Winston. Now that may have been after Winston said he wouldn't deal with Labour, so a moot point, but at face value for Hipkins, he was prepared to draw a line in the sand. Now if things were tight and labour actually had the opportunity to do a deal to get back into power, we may or may not have seen a different stance, we can only speculate.

MMP requires compromise in line with what party gets what proportion of the vote. The parties outside of government will all rail about how evil the current governing party is but once it’s time to make a deal pragmatism wins out. It’s how the system was designed.

To be fair to all the parties “principle” accomplishes nothing for your supporters. You don’t get to implement your agenda at all as opposed to being able to do the things you see as most important.

It’s an imperfect system but so are all the others.

How much can we blame the partners though? According to this RNZ article, the draft was prepared by the ministry for culture and heritage and edited by Paul Goldsmith, a National MP and minister, himself.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/08/06/minister-removed-te-reo-greetings-from-official-matariki-invitation/

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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#3269611 8-Aug-2024 21:29

Handle9:

Luxon dealt with what he had. Every other party leader would have done the same in his circumstances. The Greens and Labour were more than happy enough to get into bed with Winston in 2017 and would do so again to get into power.

Not entirely unfair, I admit. Although in that case the Greens were not really in bed with Winston: as he loudly proclaimed on more than one occasion, the coalition was between Labour and NZF, not Labour, Greens & NZF. The Green Party had no cabinet ministerial responsibility and thus correspondingly relatively little influence. Winston vetoed plenty of stuff the Greens wanted.

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#3269613 8-Aug-2024 21:41

SaltyNZ:
Handle9:

Luxon dealt with what he had. Every other party leader would have done the same in his circumstances. The Greens and Labour were more than happy enough to get into bed with Winston in 2017 and would do so again to get into power.

Not entirely unfair, I admit. Although in that case the Greens were not really in bed with Winston: as he loudly proclaimed on more than one occasion, the coalition was between Labour and NZF, not Labour, Greens & NZF. The Green Party had no cabinet ministerial responsibility and thus correspondingly relatively little influence. Winston vetoed plenty of stuff the Greens wanted.

That says that Winston was a better negotiator and had more leverage than the Greens not that they stuck to their principles.

OT their current situation will give a better guide how true to their principles the Greens are and which ones actually matter as opposed to being performative.

It’s really easy to have non-negotiables until they stop things that are actually important from happening. It’s also why I tend to vote for people instead of just policies. Things change and IMO it comes down to who can you believe in to deal with the problems along the way.

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ezbee

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#3269970 9-Aug-2024 17:49

Simple people come back with the smarter comeback. :-)
Tony Burke, Australia’s minister for multicultural affairs
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/nz-pm-takes-swipe-at-australians-after-maori-language-removed-from-official-letter

""
But Luxon didn’t take into account the power of Split Enz educating a 13-year-old Burke in Strathfield, Sydney.

“I learnt the word [Aotearoa] in 1982 thanks to Split Enz including a reference in the lyrics, Six Months in a Leaky Boat,” Burke said on Thursday.

The hit peaked at No 2 in the Australian charts that year and was the 18th biggest song overall, sandwiched between Bananarama’s Shy Boy and Our Lips Are Sealed by the Go-Go’s.

The lyrics include the line: “Aotearoa, rugged individual / Glisten like a pearl / At the bottom of the world.”
""

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#3270345 10-Aug-2024 17:27

ezbee:

Simple people come back with the smarter comeback. :-)
Tony Burke, Australia’s minister for multicultural affairs
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/nz-pm-takes-swipe-at-australians-after-maori-language-removed-from-official-letter

""
But Luxon didn’t take into account the power of Split Enz educating a 13-year-old Burke in Strathfield, Sydney.

“I learnt the word [Aotearoa] in 1982 thanks to Split Enz including a reference in the lyrics, Six Months in a Leaky Boat,” Burke said on Thursday.

The hit peaked at No 2 in the Australian charts that year and was the 18th biggest song overall, sandwiched between Bananarama’s Shy Boy and Our Lips Are Sealed by the Go-Go’s.

The lyrics include the line: “Aotearoa, rugged individual / Glisten like a pearl / At the bottom of the world.”
""

TBH its not that far removed from Trump. At one point in time, politics was running the country as best as you can. The public decides that every 3 years. Now, it seems to be a game. The "results" are at the bottom of the pile

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#3271960 15-Aug-2024 11:33

Thank goodness we are cutting front line staff so we can have someone useful....

David Seymour's new Ministry of red tape hiring a $168k-a-year spin doctor

https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350378222/david-seymours-new-ministry-red-tape-hiring-168k-year-spin-doctor/?utm_source=stuff_article&utm_medium=referral

michaelmurfy

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#3272299 16-Aug-2024 01:04

Just saw this one on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/s/Wt9JzEOJAO (Archived)

Especially if you voted for NACT perhaps have a read of this in full. I personally don’t understand how there are people out there who don’t mind kicking beneficiaries to the curb while they’re at their absolute lowest. We’re so close to people having to set up Givealittle pages to just survive or even, worse, taking the easy way out. This is one person, but bet there are many more out there just like this one case.

And, this makes me disappointed in New Zealand. Having actually struggled myself in the past and even being unable to eat because 100% of my benefit was taken up by rent if this happened at that point of my life then I honestly don’t think I’ll be here today. I was actually very close to ending it all back then. The stress of having to find a job, not having money to find a job and not even having money to eat was the hardest thing I’ve ever done and now it’s much worse and likely to get even worse.

I imagine many of you that voted for the right wing have never actually struggled in your life. It’s not fun. It’s humiliating. I don’t recommend it for anyone so if you’ve got the thought mindset “we need to sanction benefits” then I hope you change that once more examples come up just like the one I posted.

In short, this hit me hard. Be there to support those who have lost their jobs due to this govt and also help them how you can because if they’re anything like I was, they may be likely struggling too mentally and physically.

Be kind. And to those who have been affected by the ongoing bad news and need to talk to somebody then feel free to reach out to me on here anytime.

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jarledb

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#3272302 16-Aug-2024 06:03

As michaelmurfy mentioned it is hard on the individual. But it also creates a harsher environment for the rich as well. More poverty typically translates to more criminality, and also to worse health for everyone not just the poor.

The rich does better in societies were there isn't huge gaps between the rich and the poor.

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quickymart

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#3272760 17-Aug-2024 07:14

michaelmurfy:

Just saw this one on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/s/Wt9JzEOJAO (Archived)

Especially if you voted for NACT perhaps have a read of this in full. I personally don’t understand how there are people out there who don’t mind kicking beneficiaries to the curb while they’re at their absolute lowest. We’re so close to people having to set up Givealittle pages to just survive or even, worse, taking the easy way out. This is one person, but bet there are many more out there just like this one case.

This week's Secret Diary takes a very satirical look at the traffic light system and how it's not really going to help beneficiaries:

https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/17/the-secret-diary-of-louise-upston/

quickymart

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#3274896 24-Aug-2024 07:19

And this week's one takes a look at David Seymour and his desired cutbacks to the public service. Just so long as it's not people he's chosen:

https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/24/the-secret-diary-of-david-seymour/

ezbee

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#3274930 24-Aug-2024 13:15

Its a virtuous cycle,
1/ Reduce public services.
2/ People complain services are no good why spend so much on them.
3/ Goto 1.

Pretty soon you have the SovCit ideal of zero Government.
Apart from your Parliamentary staff and Spinners, which you naturally need a lot of.

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