Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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Networkn
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#1994928 12-Apr-2018 15:42

MikeB4:

I am happy to see the end of oil exploration especially offshore exploration. Some of the locations the previous government was OK with was just plain silly eg Tasman/Golden Bay.

Well, National has already said it will reverse this decision. I would prefer them to be quite selective as to where it might be allowed. Golden Bay and Tasman don't seem ideal choices in some ways.

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#1994957 12-Apr-2018 16:00

networkn:

MikeB4:

I am happy to see the end of oil exploration especially offshore exploration. Some of the locations the previous government was OK with was just plain silly eg Tasman/Golden Bay.

Well, National has already said it will reverse this decision. I would prefer them to be quite selective as to where it might be allowed. Golden Bay and Tasman don't seem ideal choices in some ways.

Mainly for gas exploration. The cold spell the last 2 days NZ didnt have enough gas online to use for its gas stations so had to power up Huntly which is coal to meet the electricity shortfall.

This new policy of the Govts has to mean electricity shortages in the medium term unless Tiwai exit and NZ can use Manapouri.

MikeB4

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#1994966 12-Apr-2018 16:07

No real affect on power generation in the medium term. Even if they found new reserves this year it would be a considerable time frame before production started.

We are better off establishing more generation from renewable sources that are friendly to the environment.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1994974 12-Apr-2018 16:21

MikeB4:
No real affect on power generation in the medium term. Even if they found new reserves this year it would be a considerable time frame before production started.

We are better off establishing more generation from renewable sources that are friendly to the environment.

But the Green party oppose large scale hydro. Such as the Project Aqua hydro scheme. Which doesn't leave many options to replace the remaining fossil fuel generation.

MikeB4

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#1994976 12-Apr-2018 16:25

Wind generation is one option and given our position in proximity to the roaring 40s it makes sense to increase our use of this.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

networkn

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#1994993 12-Apr-2018 17:02

MikeB4:

Wind generation is one option and given our position in proximity to the roaring 40s it makes sense to increase our use of this.

Wind Generation isn't THAT effective. Hydro is better I believe, by some Margin.

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#1995003 12-Apr-2018 17:16

Thermal? Individual solar? Better batteries? New technology? Isn't the point that we have to move away from fossil fuels, sooner rather than later?

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

MikeB4

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#1995004 12-Apr-2018 17:17

networkn:

MikeB4:

Wind generation is one option and given our position in proximity to the roaring 40s it makes sense to increase our use of this.

Wind Generation isn't THAT effective. Hydro is better I believe, by some Margin.

Wind is vastly superior than fossil and less impact on the environment than hydro. Wind farms can be placed off shore.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

amiga500

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#1995013 12-Apr-2018 17:32

The offshore drilling decision has made it onto Aljazeera News. Quite a big deal it seems.

MikeB4

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#1995015 12-Apr-2018 17:33

networkn:

Rikkitic:

Thermal? Individual solar? Better batteries? New technology? Isn't the point that we have to move away from fossil fuels, sooner rather than later?

Batteries? I hate to break it to you, that is a STORAGE medium, not a generation medium.

if battery tech is improved the use of individual generation can be wider

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Rikkitic

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#1995016 12-Apr-2018 17:44

MikeB4:

if battery tech is improved the use of individual generation can be wider

Of course it can. He is just being petty. Better batteries, or battery equivalents, might make it feasible to heat homes from energy stored in the daytime.

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#1995017 12-Apr-2018 17:45

Rikkitic:

MikeB4:

if battery tech is improved the use of individual generation can be wider

Of course it can. He is just being petty. Better batteries, or battery equivalents, might make it feasible to heat homes from energy stored in the daytime.

I was actually in the process of admitting I hadn't thought of that, and apologising.

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#1995019 12-Apr-2018 17:53

I will try to make it easier next time.

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#1995076 12-Apr-2018 21:38

MikeB4:
networkn:

MikeB4:

Wind generation is one option and given our position in proximity to the roaring 40s it makes sense to increase our use of this.

Wind Generation isn't THAT effective. Hydro is better I believe, by some Margin.

Wind is vastly superior than fossil and less impact on the environment than hydro. Wind farms can be placed off shore.

Unfortunately wind generation is really variable and can't be used to provide reserves capacity. Meaning if you have too much wind generation, the power grid becomes unstable. So much so, that wind generation is actually defined as negative demand instead of generation in the Wholesale electricity market. I still think we should build more wind generation. But limit it to say 10% of total generation capacity.

Lake fed Hydro and geothermal generation are by far the best types of renewable generation. As geothermal can run all year round, and in any weather conditions. While Lake fed hydro can have its output quickly varied to match demand. As well as provide reserve capacity. And also provide black start capability (re livening the grid if a complete blackout happens). So LF Hydro and Geothermal together are the best option For getting rid of fossil fuel generation.

Ironically more coal fired generation can actually be used to reduce carbon emissions. How? By using it solely as dry year reserve. Case in point, previous winter, the hydro lakes started to run low. The hydro generation owners reduced output to save water for possible later use that winter. As a result, the shortfall had to be provided by extra fossil fuel generation. However later that winter, it started raining again, and the lakes returned to normal. Therefore the extra fossil fuel generation and it's carbon emissions were not needed.

But if there was lots of spare fossil fuel generation capacity available, The hydro generation owners could then run as much water and generate as much power as they like. Knowing that they can happily run the lakes dry. And there will be spare generation capacity available if it doesn't start raining again.

We would probably need around 2000MW of coal generation capacity, and at least 2 million tonnes of coal stockpiled next to the station. But that station would only need to be started on average once every 10 years. And the extra renewable generation it will enable, will far offset its emissions when it does get used. As NZ could then have 100% renewable generation, 9 years out of 10. And far better long term security of supply.

This would also provide insurance against a major natural disaster destroying a large power station or the cook straight cable. And provide extra flood control benefits. As the hydro lakes can have their outflows turned off during major rainfall events.

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#1995078 12-Apr-2018 21:58

Aredwood:
MikeB4:

networkn:

MikeB4:

Wind generation is one option and given our position in proximity to the roaring 40s it makes sense to increase our use of this.

Wind Generation isn't THAT effective. Hydro is better I believe, by some Margin.

Wind is vastly superior than fossil and less impact on the environment than hydro. Wind farms can be placed off shore.

Unfortunately wind generation is really variable and can't be used to provide reserves capacity. Meaning if you have too much wind generation, the power grid becomes unstable. So much so, that wind generation is actually defined as negative demand instead of generation in the Wholesale electricity market. I still think we should build more wind generation. But limit it to say 10% of total generation capacity.

Lake fed Hydro and geothermal generation are by far the best types of renewable generation. As geothermal can run all year round, and in any weather conditions. While Lake fed hydro can have its output quickly varied to match demand. As well as provide reserve capacity. And also provide black start capability (re livening the grid if a complete blackout happens). So LF Hydro and Geothermal together are the best option For getting rid of fossil fuel generation.

Ironically more coal fired generation can actually be used to reduce carbon emissions. How? By using it solely as dry year reserve. Case in point, previous winter, the hydro lakes started to run low. The hydro generation owners reduced output to save water for possible later use that winter. As a result, the shortfall had to be provided by extra fossil fuel generation. However later that winter, it started raining again, and the lakes returned to normal. Therefore the extra fossil fuel generation and it's carbon emissions were not needed.

But if there was lots of spare fossil fuel generation capacity available, The hydro generation owners could then run as much water and generate as much power as they like. Knowing that they can happily run the lakes dry. And there will be spare generation capacity available if it doesn't start raining again.

We would probably need around 2000MW of coal generation capacity, and at least 2 million tonnes of coal stockpiled next to the station. But that station would only need to be started on average once every 10 years. And the extra renewable generation it will enable, will far offset its emissions when it does get used. As NZ could then have 100% renewable generation, 9 years out of 10. And far better long term security of supply.

This would also provide insurance against a major natural disaster destroying a large power station or the cook straight cable. And provide extra flood control benefits. As the hydro lakes can have their outflows turned off during major rainfall events.

You also need to be aware of the Law of Unintended Consequences. This example is related to water supply, but could just as easily be related to hydro supply:

In the UK there is a large reservoir, Rutland Water (Google it to see pics). IIRC it's about 26 miles round the circumference. It was created by the Rutland Water Act 1977 to provide increase security of supply for drinking water following the 1976 drought.

This large body of water obviously attracted many waterfowl and became a popular site for birdwatching as well as sailing and other recreation. The EU then designated it (many years after it was built) as a SPA (Special Protection Area) under the Birds Directive, due to the large population of waterfowl.

As a result (and here's the unintended consequences bit) the water companies were prohibited from reducing the water level below that which would interfere with the wellbeing of the birds...! So they could no longer use 100% of the water in a reservoir created by Parliament for that purpose because conservation had trumped that use.

So imagine if we build a nice big new lake for hydro, some wildlife likes it and someone manages to get it protected....

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