Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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13684 posts

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#2743765 13-Jul-2021 17:15

One's behind a paywall, the other doesn't mention those particular cases.

Of course there are other cases.

Fly alone into NZ, apply for a work visa once you've arrived because you've been offered a job that may eventually lead to meeting residency, there's no guarantee and it's very unlikely your partner will be offered a visa.

Immigration consultants make promises (which may be pro-bono) to "work around" the laws we have - and of course that can impact hopeful immigrants lives.

Technofreak

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#2743791 13-Jul-2021 20:26

Fred99:

One's behind a paywall, the other doesn't mention those particular cases.

Of course there are other cases.

Fly alone into NZ, apply for a work visa once you've arrived because you've been offered a job that may eventually lead to meeting residency, there's no guarantee and it's very unlikely your partner will be offered a visa.

Immigration consultants make promises (which may be pro-bono) to "work around" the laws we have - and of course that can impact hopeful immigrants lives.

It doesn't matter if it's behind a paywall. It also doesn’t matter that the two names you focussed on weren't mentioned Those two people just represent a couple of examples of what's happening. You said this issue wasn't being reported in the mainstream media. Those links prove it was. .

Just like you said the opposition wasn't taking any action on the issue. I was able to show four separate occasions where the opposition raised this issue in parliament.

This isn't about people coming here then applying for a visa. If you read the initial article the family members were all approved to come here, the borders closed before they got here. There's a lot of others in the same boat. Also it's not about any dodgy immigration consultants making promises to 'work around' our laws.

It's about the government changing the rules and not doing the decent thing and honouring the agreements for these family members.

I have no problem with the government making changes but I do have a problem when they back out of something that's been agreed to especially when it is having the impact it is on these families. It also tells the world that New Zealand cannot be trusted and is not a friendly country.

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Fred99

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#2743852 13-Jul-2021 22:18

Technofreak:

Fred99:

One's behind a paywall, the other doesn't mention those particular cases.

Of course there are other cases.

Fly alone into NZ, apply for a work visa once you've arrived because you've been offered a job that may eventually lead to meeting residency, there's no guarantee and it's very unlikely your partner will be offered a visa.

Immigration consultants make promises (which may be pro-bono) to "work around" the laws we have - and of course that can impact hopeful immigrants lives.

It doesn't matter if it's behind a paywall. It also doesn’t matter that the two names you focussed on weren't mentioned Those two people just represent a couple of examples of what's happening. You said this issue wasn't being reported in the mainstream media. Those links prove it was. .

Just like you said the opposition wasn't taking any action on the issue. I was able to show four separate occasions where the opposition raised this issue in parliament.

This isn't about people coming here then applying for a visa. If you read the initial article the family members were all approved to come here, the borders closed before they got here. There's a lot of others in the same boat. Also it's not about any dodgy immigration consultants making promises to 'work around' our laws.

It's about the government changing the rules and not doing the decent thing and honouring the agreements for these family members.

I have no problem with the government making changes but I do have a problem when they back out of something that's been agreed to especially when it is having the impact it is on these families. It also tells the world that New Zealand cannot be trusted and is not a friendly country.

It does absolutely matter if the articles are for different cases all with presumably different circumstances.

The opposition opposed passing the bill. They didn't however support or bring up the claims made WRT these cases in parliament. The opposition wanted to continue with unsustainably high levels of immigration in present circumstances where we can't even house our own citizens adequately - in the midst of an ongoing global pandemic.

As for not "honouring the agreements for these family members" what "agreements"?

There were no agreements. There was almost certainly some kind of wishful-thinking based promise made by the paid immigration consultant - and that backfired - which is not a remotely uncommon thing. Sure - the reduction in immigration numbers "probably" didn't work in their favour, but it's not a done deal until you've actually got the visas. "Oh we can try this and that to work around the system - it's worked for me before" is a damned silly thing to stake your future on.

And now the immigration consultant is trying the "sympathy by media" approach - which so far has been taken up only by fringe media in the country.

And you and one other poster in this thread are believing those stories without any critical thinking, and now making ludicrous claims and generalisations about how "NZ cannot be trusted" and how "NZers couldn't care less". Jeesh.

GV27

5897 posts

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#2743859 14-Jul-2021 06:53

Also on INZ and the processing issue; Occam's razor and all that would suggest it's just wall-to-wall bureaucratic stuff-ups and a lack of leadership around processes causing most of these headaches.

I don't for a second believe that they've suddenly gone from what they were pre-Covid to competent enough to execute a secret migration agenda under total radio silence without written documented proof of it finding its way to the relevant National Party spokespeople, either through leaks or OIAs.

"Government bad because ineffective and unaccountable" is a much more believable sell than "government bad because underlying agenda".

Fred99

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#2743868 14-Jul-2021 07:59

The system is stuffed but what else can you do?

If you set rules that can't be avoided, then it's going to be more heartless. (think about some Aus "501" deportations to NZ) if you allow discretion, then you create bureaucracy and there'll always be cases where there's false hope generated.

GV27

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#2743887 14-Jul-2021 08:55

Fred99:

If you set rules that can't be avoided, then it's going to be more heartless. (think about some Aus "501" deportations to NZ) if you allow discretion, then you create bureaucracy and there'll always be cases where there's false hope generated.

That's no excuse for operating as a rudderless department:

The latest round of cancellations of applications has caught up people who were previously incorrectly rejected for 'not living together' and who were under review.

That shouldn't really be possible, given that this was a known issue that was apparently already being addressed. Except now they're back to square one thanks to a bulk cancellation of applications.

This is the comment from INZ:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/immigration/300353988/immigration-nz-confirms-partners-among-those-whose-visas-have-been-cancelled

"This does not disadvantage the applicants as their visa applications are currently unable to be approved due to the border closure, and they will be able to reapply with updated information once the border reopens," he said.

However when it does open back up, what's the backlog for all these now-cancelled applications going to look like, and how long will they have to wait then? Who is to say they'll get treated correctly then either? As for 'not being disadvantaged', I'd wager a bunch of people who have spent time lodging applications and with their lives on hold don't feel that way, no matter what some desk jockey in Wellington says.

Technofreak

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#2749465 25-Jul-2021 13:47

Another immigration article.

Skilled migrants are leaving in droves

People we can ill afford to lose

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networkn

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#2752440 30-Jul-2021 14:56

Labour ban gay conversion therapy, good for them!

Something I wholeheartedly agree with.

Rikkitic

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#2752521 30-Jul-2021 16:44

networkn:

Labour ban gay conversion therapy, good for them!

Something I wholeheartedly agree with.

In fairness, I saw somewhere that Judith Collins has also given this her wholehearted support. Good on her.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

GV27

5897 posts

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#2752618 30-Jul-2021 18:23

Better late than never.

The Family First reaction is dripping with the kind of irony that can only be generated by their brand of whining.

I have a family now. If my son is gay then all I hope is that he marries rich.

Family First don't speak for me.

Handle9

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#2754161 3-Aug-2021 04:15

GV27:
Better late than never.

The Family First reaction is dripping with the kind of irony that can only be generated by their brand of whining.

I have a family now. If my son is gay then all I hope is that he marries rich.

Family First don't speak for me.

They certainly don't speak for me or my family. I don't need to beat my children to instill discipline. Gay people marrying has zero effect on my marriage. The rest of their nonsense is similar.

They are a bunch of clowns.

Technofreak

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#2754395 3-Aug-2021 13:13

More new reports of skilled migrants leaving or thinking about leaving New Zealand because of blunt government policy.

From the NZ Herald Covid 19 Coronavirus young regional GP with 1300 patients leaves New Zealand following residency limbo

From RNZ Migrant doctors caught in limbo weigh up their future in NZ

These stories are not about migrants that will need an MIQ slot or may present a risk of Covid entering New Zealand, these people are already here. The RNZ article alludes to the government using Covid to implement their immigration policy as does the NZHerald article with it's heading.

I think our immigration policy needed a revamp. For too long we have been allowing too many low skill migrants to enter the country. This blunt catch all policy is having negative impacts for everyday New Zealanders.

You cannot pluck doctors out of thin air. We need to train more doctors here in New Zealand but for at least the last 40 years or so we have been importing doctors. It's going to take several years if not decades to fix the likes of the doctor shortage. In the mean time what do you tell the patients who cannot get to see their doctor in a timely fashion?

I've been focussing on doctors in this post but the same applies to nurses, veterinarians, and other skills we have a shortage of. Current government policy is detrimental to the long term benefit of New Zealanders and nothing is being done to address this problem.

Based on his response to questions in parliament we have a Minister of Immigration who doesn't understand his own portfolio.

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GV27

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#2754429 3-Aug-2021 14:06

Scuttlebutt that the Cycling Bridge that was never going to happen may now not happen:

https://twitter.com/coughlthom/status/1422347709374078976?s=21&fbclid=IwAR3bWKwERVhGhPoSmOidvpM2pvHeBxl1F22utT7tl_Jz_R5-_WHq4p46_4U

Call me cynical, but I'm starting to get seriously over the government that thinks it can announce its way out of a tight spot when it comes not building things.

Light Rail in NW Auckland all but dead with confirmation we'll be getting the budget, slap-dash, thrown off at the top of off-ramp bus shoulders instead.

And now an indication that we're going to get a megabillion dollar tunnel (that the corridor can't support on either side of the harbour, but why let simple engineering constraints get in the way of a good "ohhh I'll never tell" from a minister) when a PT/Active bridge would have solved 99% of the issues with the cycling bridge but for the fraction of the cost of a set of tunnels.

The only comfort I have is that this too is probably just focus group-driven posturing, like it usually is.

floydbloke

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#2759683 13-Aug-2021 14:28

Another white elephant?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/125995865/te-huia-jeopardy-over-passenger-numbers-sparks-calls-for-interregional-support

Did Eric Clapton really think she looked wonderful...or was it after the 15th outfit she tried on and he just wanted to get to the party and get a drink?

Technofreak

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#2759754 13-Aug-2021 17:09

floydbloke:

Another white elephant?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/125995865/te-huia-jeopardy-over-passenger-numbers-sparks-calls-for-interregional-support

That was obvious right from the start. Running at 8% of capacity isn't flash.

It doesn't offer enough benefit for the average person. Compared to the car it's slow. While it might meet the timing requirements of someone working 8 till 5 it's no good for people who work different hours.

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