The politicisation of NZ's covid response

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Forums › Politics › The politicisation of NZ's covid response

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#2864792 10-Feb-2022 15:14

Peaceful people... Trumpian tactics...

Hollie Smith concerned about 'peaceful' anti-mandate protest after bystander friend allegedly punched, death threats to Prime Minister
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2022/02/hollie-smith-concerned-about-peaceful-anti-mandate-protest-after-bystander-friend-allegedly-punched-death-threats-to-prime-minister.html

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-convoy-protest-more-than-50-arrested-as-police-continue-to-gain-ground/BAUWYUH4FHNHYPWN2HUK47XFKE/

""
A police officer has been escorted inside Parliament in a distressed state after being sprayed in the face with an unknown substance by protesters.
Newstalk ZB's political editor Barry Soper confirmed he saw the officer being taken into the building by colleagues and that he "didn't look too well".
""

quickymart

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#2864794 10-Feb-2022 15:19

"Peaceful"? Whatever. I pity the police who are only trying to do their job and remove these no-hopers.

Paul1977

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#2864805 10-Feb-2022 15:30

GV27:

You'll find plenty of that happening here without the need to resort to threatening members of the public, trespass or generating harm from congregating during a global pandemic.

Sure, and the Government regularly checks Geekzone to see where the public sit on issues like this?

Threatening members of the public is unacceptable, but protesting for a cause you believe in has a long history and is often effective. I believe people have the right to protest, even when I don't agree with them.

tdgeek

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#2864809 10-Feb-2022 15:36

Paul1977:

GV27:

You'll find plenty of that happening here without the need to resort to threatening members of the public, trespass or generating harm from congregating during a global pandemic.

Sure, and the Government regularly checks Geekzone to see where the public sit on issues like this?

Threatening members of the public is unacceptable, but protesting for a cause you believe in has a long history and is often effective. I believe people have the right to protest, even when I don't agree with them.

I think what he means is that if this group are serious, and would like to engage in conversations, not about fake anti vax news but about any nuances with mandates, then they could have gone down that road. But when its aggression, intimidation by a rabid mob, throwing eggs at a 17yo girl after harrassing her as she wore a mask, stopped a man in acute condition getting into the hospital, and trying to gain entry to Parliament, its just a plain old rabid mob who want to just oppose [insert latest craze here].

EDIT

There is a legal right to protest, no one has any issue with that

GV27

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#2864816 10-Feb-2022 15:47

Paul1977:

Sure, and the Government regularly checks Geekzone to see where the public sit on issues like this?

Threatening members of the public is unacceptable, but protesting for a cause you believe in has a long history and is often effective. I believe people have the right to protest, even when I don't agree with them.

OK, and? They're congregating in breach of health orders that businesses are going to the wall because they can't operate under.

They're spreading minsformation and creating huge risk by congregating in breach of health orders during a pandemic.

They're harassing members of the public and have been trespassed from the parliamentary precinct, which is now closed to the public as a result.

They've also managed to make it impossible to get around the precinct and have blocked a street.

You can protest for whatever cause you believe in - that's your right. But your rights end where mine begin, and no right of yours trumps any of mine. That's how universal human rights work.

quickymart

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#2864820 10-Feb-2022 15:50

freitasm:
invisibleman18: paid employment

ROFL.

This question has now been answered, colour me unsurprised :D

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/127732457/antimandate-protesters-to-stay-in-picton-as-long-as-we-can

[Picton convoy co-ordinator Craig Tough]: “People don't have jobs to go back to ... we're just taking it day by day,” he said.

Personally, I don't see pointless protests as a constructive use of time. Also, the numbers camping out in Picton are dwindling rapidly, which is great news.

“If it carries on [in Wellington] then we'll be here ... if they're not in Wellington, then there's no point in being here.” There's no point them being there anyway. At all.

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Paul1977

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#2864830 10-Feb-2022 16:06

GV27:You can protest for whatever cause you believe in - that's your right. But your rights end where mine begin, and no right of yours trumps any of mine. That's how universal human rights work.

But that implies that your rights trump theirs. Sometimes peoples rights will be in conflict with each other.

I'm not saying this particular protest is a good example, but if a protest isn't in some way disruptive then no one will pay attention. There will always be some bad apples in any protest, it sounds like this one had a fair few too many.

quickymart

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#2864831 10-Feb-2022 16:07

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/10-02-2022/this-too-will-pass-says-ardern-of-the-anti-mandate-fury-but-will-it-really

Handle9

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#2864843 10-Feb-2022 16:45

quickymart:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300514726/convoy-protest-national-mp-maureen-pugh-deletes-post-thanking-protesters-says-she-didnt-know-they-were-antivax

Simon Bridges was right, she is "f-----g useless". Or maybe this is another Harete Hipango moment?

Lightning doesn’t strike twice, unless you’re Maureen Pugh.

freitasm

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#2864919 10-Feb-2022 17:27

Paul1977:

GV27:You can protest for whatever cause you believe in - that's your right. But your rights end where mine begin, and no right of yours trumps any of mine. That's how universal human rights work.

But that implies that your rights trump theirs. Sometimes peoples rights will be in conflict with each other.

I'm not saying this particular protest is a good example, but if a protest isn't in some way disruptive then no one will pay attention. There will always be some bad apples in any protest, it sounds like this one had a fair few too many.

Absolutely not.

They have the right to protest, providing they don't block my right to come and go through the public street - the one they are blocking. So right there is an example of their rights trampling on my rights.

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#2864944 10-Feb-2022 17:54

There seem to be different groups with different motives involved so it is not possible to generalise about all of them, but I suspect that the extremists want to provoke a crackdown so they can cry police brutality and claim they are being repressed as proof that the system is evil and out to get them. I think this is also why the police response has been muted and graduated, so as not to give them ammunition. I believe some people mixed up in this have genuine grievances and are not violent, but they are being hijacked by those who are. When the police have extricated enough of those, the others will go home.

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DjShadow

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#2864955 10-Feb-2022 18:15

I just about choked on my dinner when One News interviewed a protester saying her husband got the booster today and she is going to divorce him for doing that

rhy7s

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#2864958 10-Feb-2022 18:24

Paul1977:

..we've been exposed to a lot of (mostly unintended) misinformation from the Government and media too. Masks do nothing, masks are required, cloth masks are fine, cloth masks are no good, once we have a vaccine the pandemic will end. I understand things change, and not everything about Covid was known at the time many of those things were said - but I can also understand peoples frustrations and feeling like they've been lied to.

I've done everything I was meant to, double-vaxxed and boosted, in a country where we have 93% double-vaxxed. But if I'm a close contact I have to isolate the same as if I was unvaccinated.

Many of the protesters are doubtless idiot antivaxxers, but some are probably just exercising their right to question the Governments policies.

You have presented a number of misrepresentations in the examples given. Artificially collapsing evolving shades of grey into binary dichotomies. I apologise if it isn't, but this doesn't read as having been written in good faith.

Paul1977

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#2864960 10-Feb-2022 18:30

freitasm:
Absolutely not.

They have the right to protest, providing they don't block my right to come and go through the public street - the one they are blocking. So right there is an example of their rights trampling on my rights.

What about a pride parade that closes off streets? You can argue that a parade has the appropriate permits, but it’s still preventing your access to a public street. Is that “trampling” on your rights?

Would you feel the same way about an anti-racism protest that blocked a public street?

SJB

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#2864961 10-Feb-2022 18:34

DjShadow:

I just about choked on my dinner when One News interviewed a protester saying her husband got the booster today and she is going to divorce him for doing that

I'd say he is very fortunate and to jump at the opportunity. He may have been stuck with her otherwise.

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