Our new coalition government.

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#2405511 23-Jan-2020 20:22

GV27:

tdgeek:

One day the Budget will say, we have increased Climate Change expenditure by 26% this year. Funded by new taxes or cancelling transport infrastructure spending, etc

A lot of that funding goes into writing reports about even more money could be spent. I'd love to know the portion of Green Dollars that actually goes towards green infrastructure.

Thats quite GHE mate. My example was in the future when a huge amount of money will be spent on CC mitigation. Where seawalls, desalination plants, farmer support will be the order of the day. I doubt there will be much report writing cost with that. Just taxing us and letting other stuff wait. Climate Change issues with dominate every day in the future.

GV27

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#2405518 23-Jan-2020 20:39

tdgeek:

Thats quite GHE mate. My example was in the future when a huge amount of money will be spent on CC mitigation. Where seawalls, desalination plants, farmer support will be the order of the day. I doubt there will be much report writing cost with that. Just taxing us and letting other stuff wait. Climate Change issues with dominate every day in the future.

True, although I'd rather we go about laying as many foundations for that sort of thing now as we possibly can. I think Blue Cars missed out on their funding application to develop a battery replacement product for the Nissan Leaf, which is something that would have extended the lifespans of those vehicles dramatically.

https://bluecars.nz/nissan-leaf-battery-replacement-project/

I hope in the future there's some sort of funding this kind of thing does qualify for. Our ability to influence the overall climate is probably quite limited but we do have a lot of sway in making sure we use our existing resources as effectively as possible.

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#2405520 23-Jan-2020 20:54

GV27:

tdgeek:

Thats quite GHE mate. My example was in the future when a huge amount of money will be spent on CC mitigation. Where seawalls, desalination plants, farmer support will be the order of the day. I doubt there will be much report writing cost with that. Just taxing us and letting other stuff wait. Climate Change issues with dominate every day in the future.

True, although I'd rather we go about laying as many foundations for that sort of thing now as we possibly can. I think Blue Cars missed out on their funding application to develop a battery replacement product for the Nissan Leaf, which is something that would have extended the lifespans of those vehicles dramatically.

https://bluecars.nz/nissan-leaf-battery-replacement-project/

I hope in the future there's some sort of funding this kind of thing does qualify for. Our ability to influence the overall climate is probably quite limited but we do have a lot of sway in making sure we use our existing resources as effectively as possible.

I believe if the world leaders wanted to, the technology and lifestyle changes we could make would make a material difference. There are so many ways to reduce carbon and sequester it. No one way needs to be the magic bullet. But that wont happen.

I'd support that venture. It deserves some funding now, and again when they need critical mass to expand. When there are plenty of EV options, then Id tax ICE to further promote ventures like this, help them develop now, and in the future help the owner upgrade, the ICE guys can pay for it.

MikeB4

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#2405537 23-Jan-2020 21:42

tdgeek:

I believe if the world leaders wanted to, the technology and lifestyle changes we could make would make a material difference. There are so many ways to reduce carbon and sequester it. No one way needs to be the magic bullet. But that wont happen.

I'd support that venture. It deserves some funding now, and again when they need critical mass to expand. When there are plenty of EV options, then Id tax ICE to further promote ventures like this, help them develop now, and in the future help the owner upgrade, the ICE guys can pay for it.

Most leaders wont do it as there are too many climate change deniers and they have election fears. If the current government were to legislate wide reaching climate change mitigation they would lose the next election.

tdgeek

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#2405617 24-Jan-2020 06:30

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

I believe if the world leaders wanted to, the technology and lifestyle changes we could make would make a material difference. There are so many ways to reduce carbon and sequester it. No one way needs to be the magic bullet. But that wont happen.

I'd support that venture. It deserves some funding now, and again when they need critical mass to expand. When there are plenty of EV options, then Id tax ICE to further promote ventures like this, help them develop now, and in the future help the owner upgrade, the ICE guys can pay for it.

Most leaders wont do it as there are too many climate change deniers and they have election fears. If the current government were to legislate wide reaching climate change mitigation they would lose the next election.

Im not sure there are many deniers. The majority of people accept climate change and say they will be a part of the changes, unless it costs them a noticeable money cost. Then they vote elsewhere

GV27

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#2405761 24-Jan-2020 12:19

tdgeek:

Im not sure there are many deniers. The majority of people accept climate change and say they will be a part of the changes, unless it costs them a noticeable money cost. Then they vote elsewhere

It's also sadly a case of other competing prejudices. Want fewer emissions in Auckland from vehicles? Build mass transit and light rail so they don't have to drive.

But you can't do that because Wellington and the rest of the country gets annoyed when Auckland gets things. So that's out.

You could tax and levy waterway quality and farmers on herd emissions. But the farmers won't like that and the tradeables sector clenches its collective because it knows other types of agriculture are next. So you can't do that either.

Eventually you get to tourism and you can't do that either, because so much of our economy is reliant on it, even though it generates relatively low paying jobs for the most part, but it does offer jobs in the regions that primary sectors have abandoned.

So once you've got those out of the way, the only option is to just tax the absolute hell out of the general populace who do live here for just going about their business. If we don't want that, we have to talk a lot more seriously about the other options above. Which we won't do. Because we think we can't.

Rikkitic

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#2405795 24-Jan-2020 13:03

When climate change becomes so obvious, and the effects so damaging, when the country is burning like Australia, when coastal towns and cities are being wiped out by rising sea levels, when the glaciers and tourists are gone, when the agricultural land is laid waste, when insect plagues have destroyed the ecology and mosquito-borne diseases are rife, when all are overwhelmed by the cumulative destruction sweeping over us, there will at last be general recognition that we are struggling for survival and only an all-out war effort can save us. Once a country is at war, resources can be marshaled and none will object. Priorities will be dictated by the greatest urgency. As in all wars, everyone will rally around the unified effort to defeat the enemy.

What a pity that can't happen sooner.

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MikeB4

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#2405801 24-Jan-2020 13:19

tdgeek:

Im not sure there are many deniers. The majority of people accept climate change and say they will be a part of the changes, unless it costs them a noticeable money cost. Then they vote elsewhere

It does not take a lot of reading and listening to discover climate change deniers even on GZ. The lined I highlighted in bold is a form of climate change denying. Climate change denying takes many forms.

tdgeek

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#2405805 24-Jan-2020 13:26

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

Im not sure there are many deniers. The majority of people accept climate change and say they will be a part of the changes, unless it costs them a noticeable money cost. Then they vote elsewhere

It does not take a lot of reading and listening to discover climate change deniers even on GZ. The lined I highlighted in bold is a form of climate change denying. Climate change denying takes many forms.

That's very true, Mike.

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#2405806 24-Jan-2020 13:27

GV27:

It's also sadly a case of other competing prejudices. Want fewer emissions in Auckland from vehicles? Build mass transit and light rail so they don't have to drive.

But you can't do that because Wellington and the rest of the country gets annoyed when Auckland gets things. So that's out.

You could tax and levy waterway quality and farmers on herd emissions. But the farmers won't like that and the tradeables sector clenches its collective because it knows other types of agriculture are next. So you can't do that either.

Eventually you get to tourism and you can't do that either, because so much of our economy is reliant on it, even though it generates relatively low paying jobs for the most part, but it does offer jobs in the regions that primary sectors have abandoned.

So once you've got those out of the way, the only option is to just tax the absolute hell out of the general populace who do live here for just going about their business. If we don't want that, we have to talk a lot more seriously about the other options above. Which we won't do. Because we think we can't.

I don't believe providing lots of new transport options is the correct way forward. I believe the real answer to the transport impact on climate change is decentralization of employment. The greenest trip is the one that does not happen.

We created the transport mess by massing employment in central city locales. For example there is no need for the head offices of corporations and government departments to be located in Auckland and Wellington. Communication is such now that these offices can be located anywhere. There are many roles in offices in the cities that can be done from home in the suburbs it just needs thinking out of the square.

sir1963

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#2405807 24-Jan-2020 13:33

GV27:

tdgeek:

Im not sure there are many deniers. The majority of people accept climate change and say they will be a part of the changes, unless it costs them a noticeable money cost. Then they vote elsewhere

It's also sadly a case of other competing prejudices. Want fewer emissions in Auckland from vehicles? Build mass transit and light rail so they don't have to drive.

But you can't do that because Wellington and the rest of the country gets annoyed when Auckland gets things. So that's out.

You could tax and levy waterway quality and farmers on herd emissions. But the farmers won't like that and the tradeables sector clenches its collective because it knows other types of agriculture are next. So you can't do that either.

Eventually you get to tourism and you can't do that either, because so much of our economy is reliant on it, even though it generates relatively low paying jobs for the most part, but it does offer jobs in the regions that primary sectors have abandoned.

So once you've got those out of the way, the only option is to just tax the absolute hell out of the general populace who do live here for just going about their business. If we don't want that, we have to talk a lot more seriously about the other options above. Which we won't do. Because we think we can't.

Watch this, its by Paul Callaghan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhCAyIllnXY

sir1963

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#2405808 24-Jan-2020 13:34

MikeB4:

GV27:

It's also sadly a case of other competing prejudices. Want fewer emissions in Auckland from vehicles? Build mass transit and light rail so they don't have to drive.

But you can't do that because Wellington and the rest of the country gets annoyed when Auckland gets things. So that's out.

You could tax and levy waterway quality and farmers on herd emissions. But the farmers won't like that and the tradeables sector clenches its collective because it knows other types of agriculture are next. So you can't do that either.

Eventually you get to tourism and you can't do that either, because so much of our economy is reliant on it, even though it generates relatively low paying jobs for the most part, but it does offer jobs in the regions that primary sectors have abandoned.

So once you've got those out of the way, the only option is to just tax the absolute hell out of the general populace who do live here for just going about their business. If we don't want that, we have to talk a lot more seriously about the other options above. Which we won't do. Because we think we can't.

I don't believe providing lots of new transport options is the correct way forward. I believe the real answer to the transport impact on climate change is decentralization of employment. The greenest trip is the one that does not happen.

We created the transport mess by massing employment in central city locales. For example there is no need for the head offices of corporations and government departments to be located in Auckland and Wellington. Communication is such now that these offices can be located anywhere. There are many roles in offices in the cities that can be done from home in the suburbs it just needs thinking out of the square.

Ahh yes, but CEO's love their yachts ...

MikeB4

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#2431957 3-Mar-2020 15:49

I do not believe that Jacinda Ardern can continue to let Shane Jones continue unchecked. It is past time he was stripped of his ministerial portfolios and dismissed from cabinet. I will give her the benefit of the doubt for a short time that she is considering options carefully due to the COVID-19 crisis and teh need for stable government over this time.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/410840/shane-jones-comments-racist-irresponsible-race-relations-commssioner-says

networkn

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#2431964 3-Mar-2020 16:03

She was busy flogging a dead horse in Australia instead of giving her full attention where it is needed, which is the response to the CoronaVirus. We have SERIOUS SERIOUS problems preparing for this in NZ (I have some inside knowledge of this, but mainly we have a serious problem with the number of ICU beds). The Australia thing could have waited, Coronavirus absolutely cannot. We also have a serious problem heading into Flu season where we are *massively* short of even a conservative projected number of flu shots.

It's, in my opinion, the hallmark of a lack of her leadership, that she almost always seems to be focused on the wrong things and lacks the spine to hold people under her accountable.

wellygary

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#2431965 3-Mar-2020 16:04

MikeB4:

I do not believe that Jacinda Ardern can continue to let Shane Jones continue unchecked. It is past time he was stripped of his ministerial portfolios and dismissed from cabinet. I will give her the benefit of the doubt for a short time that she is considering options carefully due to the COVID-19 crisis and teh need for stable government over this time.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/410840/shane-jones-comments-racist-irresponsible-race-relations-commssioner-says

Nah, Shane will go a bit quite for a while, but until Winston comes out and says "you're a naughty boy" he'll keep going,

the PM will be forced to hold her nose for a few more months until the Budget, then she can think about doing something...

Although If NZ First pull the rug on the Auckland light rail, things might get a bit more testy

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