Our new coalition government.

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Ultimate Geek
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#2098219 28-Sep-2018 15:02

Rikkitic:

Reciprocity:

I was gonna say, “let’s not get carried away”
But this government has given us a 42% increase in petrol prices in less than a year, so anything is possible!

I try to avoid getting into the details of discussions like this because every time I do, they turn out to be incorrectly or selectively cited or presented in a manner to support a particular political argument. Wading through the figures is time-consuming and tiring and I frankly don’t have the patience or energy for it anymore, especially when the truth always turns out to be something else. But I got curious about the petrol price issue and decided to take a slightly closer look. Here is what I found on the AA site alone:

Thanks to this government (I haven’t seen anyone here giving them credit), ALL revenue from petrol taxes will now be devoted to the road and transport system. I would think this would warm the hearts of the National-voting motoring crowd. Under National, by the way, only about a third of petrol tax revenue went back into roading.

The price of fuel is a direct result of the international price of oil, which no NZ government can do much about. On top of that is the exchange rate difference since oil is priced in US dollars. A year ago a dollar was worth about US 80 cents. Right now that is around US 74 cents. This also means higher pump prices. Maybe some exchange rate difference can be blamed on government policy, but that is a stretch.

Mostly what you say their is fair - can hardly attribute all of the increases to the government. But like it or not they have increased fuel taxes, so no hiding from that fact.

However, government policy and actions have a very strong impact on the exchange rate - reduced business confidence and poor growth (which we had seen prior to the latest GDP results) will keep interest rates low which in turn has a direct impact on exchange rates in crude terms. Furthermore, when jacinda made her infamous GDP botch-up the dollar jumped. So, even if inadvertently, yes the government does have an impact on the exchange rate. However, conversely, a low exchange rate is good for exports, so that can't be ignored.

Much can be made of the government putting all fuel taxes into roading - I haven't been able to find any meaningful data on this scenario, but I find it hard to believe that this will have any tangible benefit, in that I would have thought that even if the government had put all fuel tax into roading, it would still have had to be topped up with other revenue anyway, but as i say, without any data I can't verify that.

Dingbatt

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#2098221 28-Sep-2018 15:03

Internet searches for NZ may double overnight (lord help us if tourism numbers double overnight) but that will mainly be for people ('mericans particularly) to find out where it is.

I'm sure Rikkitic didn't mean to just say Roading under National led coalition and then include Roading AND Transport under current coalition government.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Rikkitic

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#2098228 28-Sep-2018 15:19

I just said what was there. Not sure how much difference it makes anyway since transport other than roading doesn't seem to figure too highly on National's agenda. Anyway, the point I was making is that multiple things affect fuel price (and every other issue there is to argue about). It is severely misleading to just flatly state that petrol has gone up 42% in a year under Labour without any other qualification.

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Rikkitic

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#2098240 28-Sep-2018 15:28

networkn:

Then I am surprised you aren't very upset at the lie JA told during her UN speech that you lauded as "doubling our tourism overnight", around "widely consulting" over the Oil and Gas exploration ban?

Like you, I choose the lies I get upset about. Assuming, of course, this even is a lie. I haven't looked at it closely so I don't know. All I know is that the usual suspects are frothing about it. Maybe there was wide informal consultation, just not the kind that involves men in suits sitting around a shiny conference table. Maybe it depends on how you define consultation. Is a round of golf with President Trump 'consultation'. Is a chat over tea with Jacinda while she breast-feeds Neve? Maybe some of the stodgier types amongst us just don't recognise a consultation when it happens.

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Rikkitic

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#2098242 28-Sep-2018 15:35

Dingbatt: Please, tell me where you can get $US0.74 for one NZ dollar? I would love a rate like that! Try $US0.66.

Sorry about that. That is the reason I don't like figures. I was quoting from a chart. I thought I was aiming at the current value but I must have missed. The point remains the same.

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rjt123

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#2098244 28-Sep-2018 15:36

Rikkitic:

networkn:

Then I am surprised you aren't very upset at the lie JA told during her UN speech that you lauded as "doubling our tourism overnight", around "widely consulting" over the Oil and Gas exploration ban?

Like you, I choose the lies I get upset about. Assuming, of course, this even is a lie. I haven't looked at it closely so I don't know. All I know is that the usual suspects are frothing about it. Maybe there was wide informal consultation, just not the kind that involves men in suits sitting around a shiny conference table. Maybe it depends on how you define consultation. Is a round of golf with President Trump 'consultation'. Is a chat over tea with Jacinda while she breast-feeds Neve? Maybe some of the stodgier types amongst us just don't recognise a consultation when it happens.

I think the word in question in that statement is "widely" - no doubt she consulted with at least one other staff member of her government, but i don't think 'widely' could ever be applied to her consultation practices in this case

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networkn

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#2098445 29-Sep-2018 10:09

Rikkitic:

networkn:

Then I am surprised you aren't very upset at the lie JA told during her UN speech that you lauded as "doubling our tourism overnight", around "widely consulting" over the Oil and Gas exploration ban?

Like you, I choose the lies I get upset about. Assuming, of course, this even is a lie. I haven't looked at it closely so I don't know. All I know is that the usual suspects are frothing about it. Maybe there was wide informal consultation, just not the kind that involves men in suits sitting around a shiny conference table. Maybe it depends on how you define consultation. Is a round of golf with President Trump 'consultation'. Is a chat over tea with Jacinda while she breast-feeds Neve? Maybe some of the stodgier types amongst us just don't recognise a consultation when it happens.

They *admitted* they didn't consult widely, or barely at all.

Given this Government's propensity for setting up investigations for everything under the sun, how could it be that it's ok to make a unilateral decision on a matter affecting 11,000 people and $8 *BILLION* in revenue? How is it ok with you, that there wasn't a conversation held with the affected parties. This is pretty much the basis of any reasonable plan. Many people with families to support are affected, this whilst JA is at the UN making "family-friendly" commentary.

This Government seems to have a different definition for words like Honesty, Transparency and trustworthy, so I guess based on this, maybe their definition of the word consultation is warped too.

GV27

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#2098446 29-Sep-2018 10:18

Rikkitic:

Like you, I choose the lies I get upset about. Assuming, of course, this even is a lie. I haven't looked at it closely so I don't know. All I know is that the usual suspects are frothing about it. Maybe there was wide informal consultation, just not the kind that involves men in suits sitting around a shiny conference table. Maybe it depends on how you define consultation. Is a round of golf with President Trump 'consultation'. Is a chat over tea with Jacinda while she breast-feeds Neve? Maybe some of the stodgier types amongst us just don't recognise a consultation when it happens.

Maybe the PM made a rash decision and it's nothing to do with how stodgy you assume the other posters here might be?

Maybe she does it knowing that people will praise her for being bold and visionary and compassionate no matter what she actually does?

Rikkitic

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#2098470 29-Sep-2018 10:36

And maybe she believes with all her heart and soul that climate change is this generation's nuclear-free moment, and the move away from fossil fuels has to happen regardless of how vested interests feel about it, and because of that any formal consultation would just be a farce with a pre-determined outcome so better and more honest just to move forward and not to pretend. I don't know. But I do know there are different ways of looking at it.

Apart from that, the affected parties have 30 years to make the adjustment. That seems reasonable to me.

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Rikkitic

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#2098585 29-Sep-2018 17:58

Yech! I haven’t bothered with Kiwiblog since about the time I discovered Geekzone but when I used to look in there occasionally I had a sense that most posters were intelligent and reasonable, if leaning somewhat to the right. Nothing wrong with that, of course.

Just now a link I was following landed me there again after all this time and I started poking around a little. I didn’t stay long because I couldn’t handle the smell but the dozen or so posts I saw made me feel like I was attending a Kavenaugh hearing. Really nasty sidelong comments dripping with superiority and sly digs and ‘joke’ references to JA’s appearance, pregnancy and sex. I thought some of the remarks that have appeared here were out of line, but in comparison our posters are (possibly heavily moderated) paragons of virtue.

And here I was feeling smug about New Zealand’s general progressiveness and enlightened attitudes. Talk about a cold bath! Kiwiblog reminded me very much of the sheer male nastiness directed at Julia Gillard when she was PM. I guess we haven’t come as far as I thought. I don’t see much of this kind of thing here and the little bit that pops up is usually pretty mild. I hope that means our community has better standards and just a basic sense of decency. Some people think this government is a train wreck. I don’t agree but if it is, that has nothing to do with the gender or parental status or looks or head gestures of our PM. Those who think like this, and there seem to be more than I would have hoped, should be ashamed.

Now I need a shower.

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Reciprocity

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Master Geek
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#2098740 30-Sep-2018 13:58

Yeah, I can see how there might be some confusion.

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GV27

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#2098763 30-Sep-2018 14:49

Rikkitic:

Yech! I haven’t bothered with Kiwiblog since about the time I discovered Geekzone but when I used to look in there occasionally I had a sense that most posters were intelligent and reasonable, if leaning somewhat to the right. Nothing wrong with that, of course.

Just now a link I was following landed me there again after all this time and I started poking around a little. I didn’t stay long because I couldn’t handle the smell but the dozen or so posts I saw made me feel like I was attending a Kavenaugh hearing. Really nasty sidelong comments dripping with superiority and sly digs and ‘joke’ references to JA’s appearance, pregnancy and sex. I thought some of the remarks that have appeared here were out of line, but in comparison our posters are (possibly heavily moderated) paragons of virtue.

And here I was feeling smug about New Zealand’s general progressiveness and enlightened attitudes. Talk about a cold bath! Kiwiblog reminded me very much of the sheer male nastiness directed at Julia Gillard when she was PM. I guess we haven’t come as far as I thought. I don’t see much of this kind of thing here and the little bit that pops up is usually pretty mild. I hope that means our community has better standards and just a basic sense of decency. Some people think this government is a train wreck. I don’t agree but if it is, that has nothing to do with the gender or parental status or looks or head gestures of our PM. Those who think like this, and there seem to be more than I would have hoped, should be ashamed.

Now I need a shower.

Kiwiblog unfortunately has a few counterparts; NZ Twitter can be particularly zealous and The Standard is basically a cesspit.

Geekzone is a bit of a shining light in that regards; there may be plenty of disagreement, but it is nearly universally respectful.

Rikkitic

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#2098769 30-Sep-2018 15:11

GV27:

Geekzone is a bit of a shining light in that regards; there may be plenty of disagreement, but it is nearly universally respectful.

Agree 100%. Much credit to mods for that. I actually get depressed when I see some of the rubbish posted elsewhere. Especially the demeaning crap calculated to put women 'in their place'. Jacinda Ardern may (or may not) be the worst Prime Minister in history, but she is Prime Minister and is entitled to be respected as such. Some of the jerks commenting on her (not here) need a lesson in basic manners.

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Aredwood

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#2099057 1-Oct-2018 00:26

freitasm:

Ozone is good at high altitude. It's bad a ground level where it's a pollutant and cause health problems.

Definitely a valid point.

But how much of an issue is that for NZ? Which is some islands in the middle of the Roaring 40s. Which means that air pollution on a global scale is far more important than on a local scale for NZ.

EVs will reduce NOx emissions in cities due to displacing fossil fuels. So there sholdnt be much rise is measured NOx levels. While for applications such as a truck that has to drive long distance on rural roads. Or other situations where EVs are not yet an option. Are also the situations where extra NOx emissions are least likely to be a problem. But carbon emissions reductions have the same benefits, no matter where they happen.

The emissions trading scheme costs on electricity and diesel increase the cost of home heating and food costs. Yet poorly heated homes and bad diets are definitely bad for health. But the government thinks that the benefits of reducing carbon emissions outweigh those health costs. So a possible health trade off from increasing NOx emissions, could still be worthwhile. To get the available carbon emissions reductions. Keeping in mind that this government has made carbon emissions reductions a very high priority.

Also very interesting, is that the usual group of people who are strongly in favor of reducing carbon emissions. Seem to have gone all quiet in relation to my posts. Are NOx emissions some sort of taboo subject? Or are there alot of people who are in favour of carbon emissions reductions. But who only support means of reducing carbon emissions that either won't directly affect them, or will only have very minor effects on their personal situation. As surely they would regard methods of reducing carbon emissions which can be implemented quickly, and for a very low cost as a good thing.

Fred99

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#2099078 1-Oct-2018 08:51

Aredwood:

Also very interesting, is that the usual group of people who are strongly in favor of reducing carbon emissions. Seem to have gone all quiet in relation to my posts.

Probably because you're posting in a politics forum - not in the cars bikes and boats forum where there's a high level of enthusiasm for EVs.

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