2024 US Presidential election thread

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Mad Scientist
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#3254590 30-Jun-2024 08:08

Dems want to replace Biden but it's not easy, also some states don't allow replacement, Obama supports Biden, Trump camp probably quite happy with the 'debate' outcome

CNN host was very kind to Biden, would have been a lot worse if debate host didn't stop Biden

johno1234

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#3254592 30-Jun-2024 08:50

What about WH Press Secretary Karine Jeane-Pierre telling us that recent media depicting Biden stumbling and mumbling were “cheapfakes” created by Republicans? I think she’s going to have to revisit that claim.

quickymart

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#3254926 30-Jun-2024 20:25

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-election-race-donald-trumps-team-hopes-joe-biden-stays-in-race-as-ex-president-changes-tone-sends-warning-about-governor-gavin-newsom/TF3NWFTCAJBCRAONR3N7MUK5XY/

Well, this is kinda-sorta a surprise, but kinda not - I guess Trump's logic is he must think that Biden is beatable after seeing how he was in the debate, so he probably wants him to stay in as long as possible.

Having said that I reckon someone like Gavin Newsom would probably make Trump panic a bit more if he was in the race instead of Biden.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/06/28/trump-biden-debate-body-language-analysis-00165698

^ this was an interesting read about each candidate's body language too.

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#3254964 1-Jul-2024 09:19

quickymart:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-election-race-donald-trumps-team-hopes-joe-biden-stays-in-race-as-ex-president-changes-tone-sends-warning-about-governor-gavin-newsom/TF3NWFTCAJBCRAONR3N7MUK5XY/

Well, this is kinda-sorta a surprise, but kinda not - I guess Trump's logic is he must think that Biden is beatable after seeing how he was in the debate, so he probably wants him to stay in as long as possible.

Having said that I reckon someone like Gavin Newsom would probably make Trump panic a bit more if he was in the race instead of Biden.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/06/28/trump-biden-debate-body-language-analysis-00165698

^ this was an interesting read about each candidate's body language too.

Yeah. And Trump's tactic in the debate was certainly to sit back and let Biden have at it. The debate format and rules (no audience, silenced mikes) ended up helping Trump, ironically

quickymart

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#3255019 1-Jul-2024 09:52

Also the lack of any fact-checking on CNN's part; Trump was just given free rein to lie endlessly, and that's exactly what he did.

johno1234

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#3255021 1-Jul-2024 10:23

quickymart:

Also the lack of any fact-checking on CNN's part; Trump was just given free rein to lie endlessly, and that's exactly what he did.

So did Biden.

CNN did fact check: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/fact-checking-the-cnn-presidential-debate/index.html

Biden: No troops died... We beat Medicare (?)... The Border Patrol union endorses me... black unemployment at its lowest level, Trump will end Social Security and Medicare... Billionaires pay 8.2% tax, unemployment 15% under Trump... All BS. Yes it may be that he was just befuddled. Yes Trump tells many times more

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#3255025 1-Jul-2024 10:48

quickymart:

Also the lack of any fact-checking on CNN's part; Trump was just given free rein to lie endlessly, and that's exactly what he did.

Its not their job, its Bidens. This is where this has been a complete and utter failure by the Democratic party. This was foreshadowed over 4 years ago and yet here we are. I saw a video comparing his debates as VP vs President last term vs This one and the decline is a fact. He is 81. Trump is no better with his incoherent waffling about sharks. But he appears spritely and when they are picture in picture Biden looks OLD.

This video by BTC sums it up perfectly in my mind -not BTC but the guy he interviews. The only people that matter are the swing voters in the swing states - thats just fact. A democrats party issue of their own making.

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#3255030 1-Jul-2024 11:33

johno1234: What about WH Press Secretary Karine Jeane-Pierre telling us that recent media depicting Biden stumbling and mumbling were “cheapfakes” created by Republicans? I think she’s going to have to revisit that claim.

this is not new, Biden's been like this for the last 3 years and that's what i keep pointing out. no offence though, we all grow old one day, inc me.

however, what I really want to know is, who's REALLY running the country (i don't think it's JB - he can't be running the country)

quickymart

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#3255094 1-Jul-2024 13:03

johno1234:

quickymart:

Also the lack of any fact-checking on CNN's part; Trump was just given free rein to lie endlessly, and that's exactly what he did.

So did Biden.

CNN did fact check: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/fact-checking-the-cnn-presidential-debate/index.html

Biden: No troops died... We beat Medicare (?)... The Border Patrol union endorses me... black unemployment at its lowest level, Trump will end Social Security and Medicare... Billionaires pay 8.2% tax, unemployment 15% under Trump... All BS. Yes it may be that he was just befuddled. Yes Trump tells many times more

Oh for sure, Biden had a few oops moments of his own - but no way was it for the entire 90 minutes.

In that case, I say that CNN should have been fact-checking both of them, not just Trump or Biden. But they didn't do that at all.

quickymart

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#3255101 1-Jul-2024 13:20

itxtme:

quickymart:

Also the lack of any fact-checking on CNN's part; Trump was just given free rein to lie endlessly, and that's exactly what he did.

Its not their job, its Bidens.

Funny you should say that, The Bulwark did a piece on exactly what you said as well: https://www.thebulwark.com/p/donald-trump-should-not-have-been-debate-stage

Who could have predicted this would happen?

Anyone who watched CNN’s town hall with Trump, when moderator Kaitlan Collins tried to push back on the lies and in short order had lost control of Trump, the facts, and the event. Anyone aware that CNN’s political director, David Chalian, had signaled a few days in advance that the moderators would not be fact-checking. “The venue of a presidential debate between these two candidates is not the ideal venue for a live fact-checking exercise,” he said. That responsibility was to be left to the candidates.

Terrific. So to set the record straight in real time, Biden would have had to dispute Trump thirty times or more. He did take some opportunities to strike back, but who among us would have all the statistics and facts in our brain to effectively deploy every time? What candidate would want to use up all their time arguing that the other guy was wrong? How do you weigh and conclude on the fly what is worth rebutting and what you need to let go in order to get your own points across? In a he-said, he-said situation, intentional and by design, who would trust your rebuttals? Only those who already trust you. And who will stay tuned for a fact check after the main event, even a spectacular and spectacularly brief one like Daniel Dale’s?

(also was your post meant to have a link to a Brian Tyler Cohen video?)

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#3255175 1-Jul-2024 14:37

quickymart: Terrific. So to set the record straight in real time, Biden would have had to dispute Trump thirty times or more.

See Gish Gallop, it's a known dishonest debating technique. Organised/competition debates have rules to prevent this from happening.

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#3255212 1-Jul-2024 17:03

quickymart:

Also the lack of any fact-checking on CNN's part; Trump was just given free rein to lie endlessly, and that's exactly what he did.

So did Biden. It was just his lies were because he couldn't remember facts or make his mouth work.

Handle9

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#3255213 1-Jul-2024 17:05

quickymart:

johno1234:

So did Biden.

CNN did fact check: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/fact-checking-the-cnn-presidential-debate/index.html

Biden: No troops died... We beat Medicare (?)... The Border Patrol union endorses me... black unemployment at its lowest level, Trump will end Social Security and Medicare... Billionaires pay 8.2% tax, unemployment 15% under Trump... All BS. Yes it may be that he was just befuddled. Yes Trump tells many times more

Oh for sure, Biden had a few oops moments of his own - but no way was it for the entire 90 minutes.

In that case, I say that CNN should have been fact-checking both of them, not just Trump or Biden. But they didn't do that at all.

But Biden created thousands of millions of jobs. Shouldn't he be able to say what he likes?

quickymart

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#3255224 1-Jul-2024 17:56

https://www.thebulwark.com/p/trump-camp-dismisses-dem-talk-biden-debate

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-s-family-privately-criticizes-top-advisers-and-pushes-for-their-ouster-at-camp-david-meeting/ar-BB1parhA?cvid=e4f396e0a7b2400fbef4a521ec9006df&ei=35

Seems like people are quite divided as to whether Biden should actually step down or not. The blame game has started around his debate performance, too.

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#3255229 1-Jul-2024 18:13

Handle9: So did Biden. It was just his lies were because he couldn't remember facts or make his mouth work.

No I don't think so. Biden's nine fails on fact check showed the usual politician bending conclusions too far to suit the argument type stuff not really outright falsehoods. Trump's thirty fact check fails are both numerous and substantive. For a political bun fight I think Biden did fairly well in holding ground.

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