Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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quickymart

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#2849540 12-Jan-2022 21:34

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https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/11/politics/mike-rounds-republican-defense/index.html

Finally. Some Republicans are standing up to the orange buffoon. Good, but long, long overdue.

I think they are concerned that Trump continually beating the "election fraud" drum is going to hurt them at the next elections, which it most likely will.

neb

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#2849550 12-Jan-2022 22:06

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neb: Political commentators have talked about how the irreconcilable differences will work out, and are weighing in not for a full-scale second civil war that the accelerationists are hoping for but instead a Northern Ireland-style ongoing insurgency.

To expand on this comment a bit further, here's one of the articles that talks about this.

gzt

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#2849552 12-Jan-2022 22:18

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marmel:I just can’t help feeling that country is going to be completely munted until someone incredible comes along to unite the centre block of voters, or bring those that have drifted to the extremes back towards the centre. I can’t see anyone on the horizon that would come even close.

This is just an illusion caused by the overused Senate filibuster rule. It and the threat of it allows 41% of the senators to completely block legislation.

marmel

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#2849568 12-Jan-2022 22:36

gzt:
marmel:I just can’t help feeling that country is going to be completely munted until someone incredible comes along to unite the centre block of voters, or bring those that have drifted to the extremes back towards the centre. I can’t see anyone on the horizon that would come even close.

This is just an illusion caused by the overused Senate filibuster rule. It and the threat of it allows 41% of the senators to completely block legislation.

I don’t think that really has much bearing on this situation at all, the same rules have been in place since the 70’s and both parties have had to deal with it so it’s a bit hard to blame that for the issues of recent times.

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#2849570 12-Jan-2022 22:58

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marmel: I don’t think that really has much bearing on this situation at all, the same rules have been in place since the 70’s and both parties have had to deal with it so it’s a bit hard to blame that for the issues of recent times.

There are multiple measures showing that is not correct.
Ultimately if a party has a majority and cannot pass simple legislation with a simple majority without adding pork barrel amendments and multiple back channel deals then that's a big problem for parliamentary democracy and by extension a big problem for any kind of democracy.

neb

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#2849595 12-Jan-2022 23:47

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Depressing interview with US nurses about the strain they're under due to the way they're treated there. What's at least as depressing isn't the interview but the comments from nurses who have burned out having to deal with totally preventable deaths from people who refused to get vaccinated, wear a mask, and similar:

I burned out this summer after nearly a decade of icu nursing. So many cases of almost entirely unvaccinated patients was my breaking point. Had to leave the bedside before it ended up making me miserably bitter.

My daughter is a Cardiac nurse in a Cardiology Ward. Over the last 9 months or so the ICU has been filled and they been putting Covid patients in her Ward. She had to pick up to a couple more days a week and working as much as 15 hours in a day. At the same time there have been days she didn’t even get a break and get a chance to get off her feet to rest or even get something to eat. She said majority of these patients aren’t even vaccinated and refuse to get vaccinated. They are the ones going on the ventilators and she said once they are on the ventilators it pretty much a positive they won’t come off of it alive.

This is why I'm in favour of health taxes on the unvaccinated.

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#2849611 12-Jan-2022 23:55

gzt:
marmel: I don’t think that really has much bearing on this situation at all, the same rules have been in place since the 70’s and both parties have had to deal with it so it’s a bit hard to blame that for the issues of recent times.

There are multiple measures showing that is not correct.
Ultimately if a party has a majority and cannot pass simple legislation with a simple majority without adding pork barrel amendments and multiple back channel deals then that's a big problem for parliamentary democracy and by extension a big problem for any kind of democracy.

Again, it has nothing to do with the current political climate in the US though, if it did we would have seen this scenario numerous times over the past 50 years and we haven’t. Regardless of the political mechanism in the US it simply doesn’t explain the increasingly extreme views of voters. The system has worked in the past, admittedly not perfectly, but they’ve always managed to find ways to get things done because you had a much larger centre voting block and therefore a much larger proportion of voters/politicians that were more willing to compromise.

What we are seeing now is voters from both parties being so entrenched in their views any compromise isn’t possible. Let’s also not forget the Democrats recent issues and their immediate goals around voting reform is not only being thwarted by the republicans but by a couple of their own members as well.

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#2849619 13-Jan-2022 00:43

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I really don't think so. In practice the vast majority of voters are not getting what they want. The filibuster or threat of it is always present. The world is moving ahead and the USA body politic cannot keep up.

kingdragonfly

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#2849725 13-Jan-2022 10:51

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As mentioned before "NPR" is "National Public Radio". It used to provide news to jazz and classic music radio channels, but branched into TV. It's know for being stoic, unemotional, "only the facts please ma'am"

Summary: The orange tyrant doesn't like being asked for proof, so left in a huff.

NPR: Pressed on his election lies, former President Trump cuts NPR interview short

INSKEEP: Let me ask about another piece of news here. South Dakota Sen. Mike Rounds, as I think you know, was on ABC over the weekend. He spoke about the 2020 election and also referred to the election campaign that is now starting in 2022. Let's listen.

"SEN. MIKE ROUNDS: We simply did not win the election as Republicans for the presidency. And if we simply look back and tell our people, "Don't vote, because, you know, there's cheating going on", then we're going to put ourselves in a in a huge disadvantage. "

INSKEEP: Couple of things to ask about there, Mr. President. Let's start with the politics. Is it a disadvantage for Republicans to keep talking about the 2020 election in 2022?

TRUMP: No, I think it's an advantage, because otherwise they're going to do it again in ‘22 and '24. And Rounds is wrong on that, totally wrong. If you look at the numbers, if you look at the findings in Arizona, if you look at what's going on in Georgia, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, by the way – and take a look at Wisconsin – they're finding things that nobody thought possible. This was a corrupt election.

INSKEEP: I just have to point out Doug Logan – to name one of the states that you just named – Doug Logan, who ran the audit in Arizona that was set up by your allies, didn't find serious problems.

This is a quote. "The ballots that were provided to us to count in the Coliseum very accurately correlate with the official canvass numbers."

He raised a bunch of administrative issues, but didn't find a problem that would have changed the result at all.

TRUMP: The ballots may correspond, but look at the ballots themselves. The number of ballots doesn't mean anything. It's who signed the ballots, where did the ballots come from. What you really have to do in that report is look at the findings. And the findings are devastating for Arizona. They're devastating like nobody's seen before –

INSKEEP: Why did – why did your –

TRUMP: – And other states are just as bad.

INSKEEP: Why did Republican officials in Arizona accept the results then?

TRUMP: Because they're RINOs, and frankly, a lot of people are questioning that. Why would they? They fought very hard, the Maricopa County people. And people don't understand it, because all you have to do is look at the findings. And, just so you know, some of those people went before Congress a short while ago, and they were grilled by Congressman Biggs. You ought to take a look at their testimony. They weren't able to answer anything. He made them look like fools. They couldn't answer a thing. They got up and gave a beautiful statement. And then when it came time to ask, why this? Why that? What about these votes? What about those votes? They look like total fools.

INSKEEP: Let me read you some short quotes. The first is by one of the judges, one of the 10 judges you appointed, who ruled on this. And there were many judges, but 10 who you appointed. Brett Ludwig, U.S. District Court in Wisconsin, who was nominated by you in 2020.

He's on the bench and he says, quote, "This court allowed the plaintiff the chance to make his case, and he has lost on the merits."

Another quote, Kory Langhofer, your own campaign attorney in Arizona, Nov. 12, 2020, quote, "We are not alleging fraud in this lawsuit. We are not alleging anyone stealing the election."

And also Rudy Giuliani, your lawyer, Nov. 18, 2020, in Pennsylvania, quote, "This is not a fraud case."

Your own lawyers had no evidence of fraud, they said in court they had no evidence of fraud, and the judges ruled against you every time on the merits.

TRUMP: It was too early to ask for fraud and to talk about fraud. Rudy said that, because of the fact it was very early with the – because that was obviously at a very, very – that was a long time ago. The things that have found out have more than bore out what people thought and what people felt and what people found. When you look at Langhofer, I disagree with him as an attorney. I did not think he was a good attorney to hire. I don't know what his game is, but I will just say this: You look at the findings. You look at the number of votes. Go into Detroit and just ask yourself, "Is it true that there are more votes than there are voters?" Look at Pennsylvania. Look at Philadelphia. Is it true that there were far more votes than there were voters?

INSKEEP: It is not true that there were far –

TRUMP: Gee, that’s a pretty tough thing to –

INSKEEP: It is not true.

TRUMP: That’s a pretty tough problem. It is not true that there were far more votes than voters. There was an early count. I've noticed you've talked about this in rallies and you've said, reportedly, this is true. I think even you know that that was an early report that was corrected later. Well, you take a look at it. You take a look at Detroit. In fact, they even had a hard time getting people to sign off on it because it was so out of balance. They called it out of balance. So you take a look at it. You know the real truth, Steve, and this election was a rigged election.

INSKEEP: Why is it that you think that the vast majority of your allies in the United States Senate are not standing behind you? We did have that statement by Mike Rounds.

TRUMP: Because [Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, Kentucky Republican] Mitch McConnell is a loser. And frankly, Mitch McConnell, if he were on the other side and if [Majority Leader of the United States Senate, New York Democrat] Schumer were put in his position, he would have been fighting this like you've never seen before. He would have been fighting this, because when you look at it, and this is long – is a long way from over. You take a look at what's going on now in Pennsylvania. Take a look at what's going on in Wisconsin. You just take a look. Now, we had a lot of cases where the judges wouldn't hear him. We had a case in Nevada that was so good. You read the papers. It's impossible. The judge refused to even listen to it. We had many cases. In fact, they say, and I can't testify because it's been through a lot of systems, a lot of different systems. But they say, and they say very strongly, the judges just – nobody's really gotten a chance to look. Look at the United States Supreme Court. They refused to hear the case. And you had, I guess, 19 states suing –

INSKEEP: They said, there was no standing to give the case.

TRUMP: That’s correct.

INSKEEP: Can I just ask–?

TRUMP: Well, yeah, no standing, I know, no standing. And the president of the United States supposedly didn't have standing, either. So I wanted to file it myself. They said, "Sir, you don't have standing.” I said, wait a minute. I’m the President of the United States. They just rigged an election. Hundreds of thousands of votes in different states. They just rigged an election. We got – we got a number of votes that, I think you'll agree – no sitting president has ever gotten the number of votes that I got. No sitting president has ever gotten –

INSKEEP: Lot of votes. That's true. In – lot of – lot of – you –

TRUMP: No sitting president. Do you – I – nobody believes. You think Biden got 80 million votes? Because I don’t believe it.

INSKEEP: It’s true – it’s true that you got more than any sitting president in the election you’ve disputed.

TRUMP: You mean he got them sitting in his basement. He got 80 – how come he couldn’t – then how come Biden –

INSKEEP: If I can, Mr. President, Mr. President.

TRUMP: Let me ask you this question. How come Biden couldn't attract 20 people for a crowd? How come when he went to speak in different locations, nobody came to watch, but all of a sudden he got 80 million votes? Nobody believes that, Steve. Nobody believes that.

INSKEEP: If you'll forgive me, maybe because the election was about you. If I can just move on to ask, are you telling Republicans in 2022 that they must press your case on the past election in order to get your endorsement? Is that an absolute?

TRUMP: They are going to do whatever they want to do – whatever they have to do, they're going to do. But the ones that are smart – the ones that know, you take a look at. Again, you take a look at how Kari Lake is doing, running for governor. She's very big on this issue. She's leading by a lot. People have no idea how big this issue is, and they don't want it to happen again. It shouldn't be allowed to happen, and they don't want it to happen again.

INSKEEP: I want to–

TRUMP: And the only way it's not going to happen again is you have to solve the problem of the presidential rigged election of 2020.

INSKEEP: Mr. President, if I –

TRUMP: So Steve, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

INSKEEP: Woah, woah, woah, I have one more question. I want to ask about a court hearing yesterday on Jan. 6. Judge Amit Mehta.

TRUMP: He's gone. OK. disconnects

marmel

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#2849738 13-Jan-2022 11:20

gzt: I really don't think so. In practice the vast majority of voters are not getting what they want. The filibuster or threat of it is always present. The world is moving ahead and the USA body politic cannot keep up.

You are correct, most people of not getting what they want however the filibuster isn’t to blame, like I said that has been around for 50 years.

The reason no one is getting what they want is because the two sides of the political spectrum are now much further apart in views than they were previously and more entrenched in their views.

It isn’t a case of the political system no longer working, it’s a case of the voters perspective becoming more of an issue and a barrier to the democracy working as it had previously.

I think the rot started to creep in during Obama’s presidency as there were certainly a reasonable block of republican voters that balked at the idea of a black president, especially one with a middle name ‘Hussein’.

Then along comes Trump who is about as bad as it gets so far as dividing the voters and that has further cemented not only that block that hated Obama but a good majority of Republican vorters.

I think democrats in turn have reacted to that and have moved further left themselves, leaving a divide in the middle ‘common’ ground where shit actually gets done.

freitasm

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#2849753 13-Jan-2022 11:33

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marmel: I think the rot started to creep in during Obama’s presidency as there were certainly a reasonable block of republican voters that balked at the idea of a black president, especially one with a middle name ‘Hussein’.

Racist republicans who couldn't bear a black president.

Misogynist republicans who rather have an orange liar than a woman in the presidency.

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marmel

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#2849767 13-Jan-2022 11:59

freitasm:
marmel: I think the rot started to creep in during Obama’s presidency as there were certainly a reasonable block of republican voters that balked at the idea of a black president, especially one with a middle name ‘Hussein’.

Racist republicans who couldn't bear a black president.

Misogynist republicans who rather have an orange liar than a woman in the presidency.

Agreed with the caveat that Clinton brought a lot of her own baggage to the table which certainly didn’t help.

quickymart

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#2849771 13-Jan-2022 12:05

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I agree with that too; although while I feel that Hillary certainly wasn't a saint, in saying that Trump was hardly an angel either.

quickymart

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#2850339 14-Jan-2022 07:09

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The My Pillow guy gets crazier:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/01/12/are-you-one-1-11-americans-mike-lindell-doesnt-want-arrest/?itid=mr_the%20fix_4

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#2850586 14-Jan-2022 11:15

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The New York Times - Oath Keepers Leader Charged With Seditious Conspiracy in Jan. 6 Investigation

breaking

Stewart Rhodes, the leader and founder of the far-right Oath Keepers militia, was arrested on Thursday and charged along with 10 others with seditious conspiracy for allegedly organizing a wide-ranging plot to storm the Capitol on Jan. 6 last year and disrupt the certification of Biden’s electoral victory.

The arrest of Mr. Rhodes, 56, was a major development in the sprawling investigation of the Capitol attack.

The case against him and the other members of his group was the first time that prosecutors have filed charges of sedition against any of the more than 700 people accused so far of taking part in the assault. ...

At last, some heavy-duty prosecutions from the Justice Department. 😗

Seditious conspiracy = "conspiring to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States." It carries a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison.

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