2024 US Presidential election thread

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#3255807 3-Jul-2024 08:48

johno1234:

"End of everything". "1933"... That's hysterical and overreactive. Nothing like any of these things occurred during Trump's first go and he's limited to only one more. The USA has checks and balances that have survived a couple of hundred years. 4 years of the orange buffoon cannot undo it.

The biggest risk the USA faces is the lawlessness and rioting that will sadly ensue if Trump gets lawfully elected. Whipped up by this sort of talk.

Those checks and balances came very close to being removed on 6 January 2021.

But now they know what to look for.

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#3255835 3-Jul-2024 10:17

Rikkitic:
I bet that's what they said in 1933 too!

And in particular chancellor Franz von Papen supported Hitler because he'd be easy to control once he was in power...

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#3255939 3-Jul-2024 11:15

johno1234: The USA has checks and balances that have survived a couple of hundred years. 4 years of the orange buffoon cannot undo it.

This is not a rhetorical question. What do you imagine might have happened if Mike Pence had refused to certify the voting returns?

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#3255940 3-Jul-2024 11:19

johno1234: The biggest risk the USA faces is the lawlessness and rioting that will sadly ensue if Trump gets lawfully elected.

I don't see any risk of that whatsoever on a possible Trump 2024 victory. What on earth causes you to believe that?

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#3255980 3-Jul-2024 13:16

gzt:
johno1234: The USA has checks and balances that have survived a couple of hundred years. 4 years of the orange buffoon cannot undo it.

This is not a rhetorical question. What do you imagine might have happened if Mike Pence had refused to certify the voting returns?

Then we have another Russia

Paul1977

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#3255988 3-Jul-2024 14:32

Rikkitic:

I have thought about this long and hard.

If I could vote I would vote for Biden.
If Biden mumbled and lost his train of thought I would vote for Biden.
If Biden got lost on the way to the toilet I would vote for Biden.
If Biden forgot what a toilet was for I would vote for Biden.
If Biden said to vote for Trump I would vote for Biden.
If Biden was senile I would vote for Biden.
If Biden had a stroke I would vote for Biden.
If Biden was a corpse I would vote for Biden.

People need to understand what they are sleepwalking into. The alternative to Biden is the end of everything they take for granted. This is 1933 all over again. This is a second chance to stop the horror in its tracks. If Americans elect Trump again the whole world will get what they deserve. This is not about an old man who forgets things. Presidents are surrounded by advisors and staff. If these people are chosen for the right reasons, they can keep things on course. This election is not about Biden’s gaffs. It is about Trump’s malevolence.

And about half of the Americans who bother to vote will share the same sentiments. But like in 2020, and 2016, they are votes AGAINST Trump rather than votes FOR the Democratic candidate. How is it that they haven't had a candidate win the nomination since 2012 (Obama) that people actually want to vote FOR?

The "at least I'm not the other guy" strategy is getting pretty damn old.

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#3255993 3-Jul-2024 15:02

Rikkitic: This is 1933 all over again. This is a second chance to stop the horror in its tracks.

Presumably you're referring to the approximate 12 million undocumented migrants in the United States and the kinds of things Trump has promised, threatened, and sometimes partly implemented in his previous term:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/closer-donald-trumps-2024-vow-deport-millions-migrants/story?id=110469177

or perhaps you're referring to Trump's propensity to indicate support for and be supported by various armed and racist groups.

*I'm unsure if that number includes dependents legally born in the United States. Probably not. So, you can guess the number of people affected by this kind of disruption would be far higher.

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SJB

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#3256087 3-Jul-2024 19:22

Better not to say anything rather than blame jet lag from 2 weeks earlier.

Biden blames jet lag and travel for poor debate performance - BBC News

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#3256088 3-Jul-2024 19:25

Paul1977: But like in 2020, and 2016, they are votes AGAINST Trump rather than votes FOR the Democratic candidate. How is it that they haven't had a candidate win the nomination since 2012 (Obama) that people actually want to vote FOR?

I don't think so at all. Biden offers policies that are objectively better for the average American family and worker. Trump offers almost nothing substantive. On Obamacare for example Trump says "replace it with something better" like he said last time. Biden will continue to expand it. Most of Trump's policy is blame migrants "poisoning the blood of our country" and similar backwards looking stuff.

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#3256091 3-Jul-2024 19:53

A couple of links I found today:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4749546-biden-debate-calls-replace/

Allan Lichtman, who has correctly predicted every election since 1984 (bar one) is saying that one bad debate does not an election make (or lose)

Conversely: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/07/02/biden-replacement-00166318 >> this opinion piece says replacing Biden could help the Democrats

Also - and apologies if this was posted before - but I saw these (obviously AI-generated) images this afternoon and thought, wouldn't it be nice if at least they did get on with one another like this? Would make things in the US a little more civil and less divided, IMO:

^ the hands and the wool here are a bit of an obvious "it's AI" giveaway though.

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#3256185 4-Jul-2024 10:01

As well as the Presidential election on November 5th all the 435 seats in the House of Representatives and 34 of the 100 Senate seats are up for grabs.

If either of those is controlled by the party opposing the President then very little new legislation will be passed for the next 4 years irrespective of who is President.

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#3256188 4-Jul-2024 10:17

freitasm:

johno1234:

"End of everything". "1933"... That's hysterical and overreactive. Nothing like any of these things occurred during Trump's first go and he's limited to only one more. The USA has checks and balances that have survived a couple of hundred years. 4 years of the orange buffoon cannot undo it.

The biggest risk the USA faces is the lawlessness and rioting that will sadly ensue if Trump gets lawfully elected. Whipped up by this sort of talk.

Those checks and balances came very close to being removed on 6 January 2021.

But now they know what to look for.

There was never any realistic threat to democracy in the US on 6th Jan. A bunch of morons storming a government building, waving flags and then leaving is not a threat to democracy, it's just a bunch of morons waving flags. Even if Trump had called for his supporters to take up arms and ensure his continuation in power it still wouldn't have worked. Despite what we see on CNN and Fox 99% of Trump supporters aren't completely deranged, many simply can't bring themselves to vote for HRC or now Biden, for obvious reasons. For many Trump is often the best of two bad choices.

Trying to claim Trump had any chance of overthrowing the democratic process by force is farcical, given the size of the US army of other armed government agencies, he would have had to have their full support and there hasn't been a single claim ever that anything even remotely like that was even a possibility.

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#3256190 4-Jul-2024 10:30

marmel:

Trying to claim Trump had any chance of overthrowing the democratic process by force is farcical, given the size of the US army of other armed government agencies, he would have had to have their full support and there hasn't been a single claim ever that anything even remotely like that was even a possibility.

You don't need to overthrow by force if you have enough judges, legislators and bureaucratic toadies on your side. The threat presented by Trump is real, and the biggest part of it is pretending it doesn't exist!

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#3256192 4-Jul-2024 10:41

Rikkitic:

marmel:

Trying to claim Trump had any chance of overthrowing the democratic process by force is farcical, given the size of the US army of other armed government agencies, he would have had to have their full support and there hasn't been a single claim ever that anything even remotely like that was even a possibility.

You don't need to overthrow by force if you have enough judges, legislators and bureaucratic toadies on your side. The threat presented by Trump is real, and the biggest part of it is pretending it doesn't exist!

Do you have similar concerns with Democrats calling for the supreme court to be 'stacked'. Wouldn't that also be a threat to democracy? The US political/justice system's are broken, no doubt about that but both sides are full of corruption.

If we are talking about threats to democracy and having 'judges and others onside', from a law enforcement/justice perspective one of my biggest red flags from the last 5-6 years in the US is a US government agency obtaining surveillance warrants based in part on evidence from an individual that was funded by the democrats. Evidence that turned about to be BS. Not only that, the agency that applied for those warrants knew the source of the info and who had funded it yet didn't disclose it. If there is ever a threat to democracy in the US that type of thing being allowed to happen would be a huge concern.

I think both Biden and Trump are completely unfit to be president, but if you are trying to make a claim one is worse than the other based on 6th Jan you need to consider the last decade and who has been doing what.

Rikkitic

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#3256198 4-Jul-2024 11:09

I never mentioned 6 January. My concern is based on overall long-term behaviour. If you seriously think there is no significant difference between Trump and Biden, or the Democrats and the Republicans, then I can't help you.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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