Ukraine War discussion

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#3387290 26-Jun-2025 19:19

A bit of positivity here aftertge NATO summit. NATO went hard to make Trump happy, ok, we all know why. One hour meeting with Zelensky, where Trump has admitted that Putin may have territorial hopes past Ukraine. Some commitment to Patriot missiles. If Trumo is on a winning streak in his eyes, if he wants to extend that to Ukraine, thats a good thing.

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#3387307 26-Jun-2025 20:24

tdgeek:

A bit of positivity here aftertge NATO summit. NATO went hard to make Trump happy, ok, we all know why. One hour meeting with Zelensky, where Trump has admitted that Putin may have territorial hopes past Ukraine. Some commitment to Patriot missiles. If Trumo is on a winning streak in his eyes, if he wants to extend that to Ukraine, thats a good thing.

Ugh, did you hear the leaked letter that Mark Rutte wrote to Trump? I would gag if I had to write something like that to anyone. 100% vomit-inducing flattery. Ah, the things we do when we have to...

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#3387311 26-Jun-2025 20:41

SaltyNZ:

tdgeek:

A bit of positivity here aftertge NATO summit. NATO went hard to make Trump happy, ok, we all know why. One hour meeting with Zelensky, where Trump has admitted that Putin may have territorial hopes past Ukraine. Some commitment to Patriot missiles. If Trumo is on a winning streak in his eyes, if he wants to extend that to Ukraine, thats a good thing.

Ugh, did you hear the leaked letter that Mark Rutte wrote to Trump? I would gag if I had to write something like that to anyone. 100% vomit-inducing flattery. Ah, the things we do when we have to...

Daddy? Heard something, but no detail. I watched Rutte's speech, that was a cringe moment. But yes, ends justify the means. Its a tad sad when that phrase applies to Global Leaders, it truly is a sh1te show.

Take the NATO settings 5% defence budget to GDP. Thats a huge Trump win, but for another reason. Trump sees that its a win, but IMHO, Trumps walking way from UKR showed NATO/EU that they cannot trust the USA so they need to defend Europe potentially alone. The US budget cuts galvanise that. So EU/NATO are stepping up, because of, not for Trump. Thats a win for the rest of us IMO #eggsbasket

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#3391852 8-Jul-2025 12:18

Such a lovely family.

You can transcend these things, but for Elon, he seems to be looking to fit the pattern.
The NPC's naturally will be made to fit or.

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#3405331 18-Aug-2025 13:24

So, how do we see things after 'America's Alaskan Appeasement Summit' the other day? Or, Trump's continued futile pursuit of a Nobel Peace Prize framed as a supposed interest in ending the wanton death and destruction. If Trump were more scholarly he might recognize the lessons to be learned from Chamberlain's selling down the river of Czechoslovakia in 1938 which, as history records, ultimately emboldened German aggression and, in the opinions of many, probably prolonged WW2.

It's hard to see a "peace deal" which is forced on Ukraine through gritted teeth as being likely to last for any length of time. Unless Russian generals do the world a favour and take Putin out, which appears unlikely as they are the ones driving this crazy bus, then the only way he is going to be stopped for good is by military intervention from Europe and its friends.

Great to see that Europe will be travelling to Washington en masse in support of Zelenski and Ukraine to hopefully finally stand up to the idiot Trump. This day has been coming for months as the orange buffoon has been systematically destroying America's position as the preeminent Western power. At the end of his term, it's hard to see how the USA's place in the world won't be diminished as a result.

Do like that Ursula von der Leyen will be in attendance, I like the cut of her jib and there's something of Margaret Thatcher about her. She doesn't appear to suffer fools gladly and she's not afraid to call bullsh!t on Trump while other leaders seem to think the answer is to bow and scrape to him.

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#3405335 18-Aug-2025 13:33

thermonuclear:

So, how do we see things after 'America's Alaskan Appeasement Summit' the other day? Or, Trump's continued futile pursuit of a Nobel Peace Prize framed as a supposed interest in ending the wanton death and destruction. If Trump were more scholarly he might recognize the lessons to be learned from Chamberlain's selling down the river of Czechoslovakia in 1938 which, as history records, ultimately emboldened German aggression and, in the opinions of many, probably prolonged WW2.

It's hard to see a "peace deal" which is forced on Ukraine through gritted teeth as being likely to last for any length of time. Unless Russian generals do the world a favour and take Putin out, which appears unlikely as they are the ones driving this crazy bus, then the only way he is going to be stopped for good is by military intervention from Europe and its friends.

Great to see that Europe will be travelling to Washington en masse in support of Zelenski and Ukraine to hopefully finally stand up to the idiot Trump. This day has been coming for months as the orange buffoon has been systematically destroying America's position as the preeminent Western power. At the end of his term, it's hard to see how the USA's place in the world won't be diminished as a result.

Do like that Ursula von der Leyen will be in attendance, I like the cut of her jib and there's something of Margaret Thatcher about her. She doesn't appear to suffer fools gladly and she's not afraid to call bullsh!t on Trump while other leaders seem to think the answer is to bow and scrape to him.

Trump will pressure Ukraine to give up Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk in exchange for Putin's promise to respect Ukraine's sovereignty. What a big, beautiful deal! Some people are saying it's the most fantastic deal in the history of real estate deals. When Zelensky says no, Trump & Vance will start to unload on him again just like last time. Maybe the presence of other European leaders will tone it down but Trump doesn't respect any of them any more than he does Zelensky.

Zelensky will be joined the other leaders in pointing out once again that Putin's promises are not worth the paper they are printed on, as evidenced by [waves hands] literally everything he has said and done since taking the presidency. Trump will get angry, no deal will be reached but nothing of value will have been lost because it was never a deal in the first place.

The only way I can see anything actually working is if other western nations put boots on the ground and fight with numbers sufficient to really, truly push Russia back to its own borders, and then leaving troops stationed there as long term peacekeepers.

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#3405432 18-Aug-2025 19:52

SaltyNZ:

Trump will pressure Ukraine to give up Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk in exchange for Putin's promise to respect Ukraine's sovereignty. What a big, beautiful deal! Some people are saying it's the most fantastic deal in the history of real estate deals. When Zelensky says no, Trump & Vance will start to unload on him again just like last time. Maybe the presence of other European leaders will tone it down but Trump doesn't respect any of them any more than he does Zelensky.

Zelensky will be joined the other leaders in pointing out once again that Putin's promises are not worth the paper they are printed on, as evidenced by [waves hands] literally everything he has said and done since taking the presidency. Trump will get angry, no deal will be reached but nothing of value will have been lost because it was never a deal in the first place.

The only way I can see anything actually working is if other western nations put boots on the ground and fight with numbers sufficient to really, truly push Russia back to its own borders, and then leaving troops stationed there as long term peacekeepers.

Thats exactly right, but there are many moving parts.

Trump wants out as he wants to save US$. He also wants to divert his failure to stop the war. EU needs to give him an out. EU has spent slightly more $ than the US, but the US has performed with arms and intelligence. so, you need to satisfy/placate both

EU needs to go on, feet on the ground and planes in the air, that will push Putin back, as Starmer stated months ago. Trump needs to get a daily dose of accolades for "providing the foundation" Truth or Lie it doesnt matter, the end result is all that matters. USA will supply arms that EU/UKR will pay for, tick. US will provide intelligence which in the greater context is free, tick. Trump gets full recognition to keep him engaged.

End result is Ukraine's sovereign boundaries are restored

What will Putin do?? Be pushed back. His PR will spin that Russia has shown its a huge powerhouse and now given respect. Again Truth or Lie isnt relevant. War is over, EU is strengthened, Russia is weakened. Putin will be under threat, and with dictators its not the votes its' his military and hopeful political underlings that will remove him. Hitler was under the same threat, supported by his execution strategy, which Putin also employs. Being backed into a corner will prove his downfall. Russia could provide the normal Govt, compensate Ukraine. Ok I'm getting into glass half full here, but this heartache drama is based solely on human ego. Democracy can resolve that.

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#3405442 18-Aug-2025 21:28

Putin has it seems a raft of somethings on Trump.
The extent that Trump backed down and honored Putin for no deal.

On top of that Putin has control of wealth that Trump respects most.
Putin can be generous via his Oligarchs and such.

Trump just saw Gold, lots of Gold ?
So Putin saved from using the pointy stick and just waves carrot ?

TechBros also naturally enthralled by capital that Putin can wield.
Saudis and Emiratis have large investments in Russia that are stuck too.

What was Witless Witkoff the Estate Tycoon Golfing buddy of Trumps.
Possibly the closest thing he has to a friend since his close buddy Epstein.
Doing?

Um he surely had to report Putin was bringing no concessions that would make a meeting make any sense.
The USA Ukraine envoy who was only Trump official that visited Ukraine was not involved.

Probably just looking at getting Oligarch money back in play for estate deals.

Seemed to just be a show to say Putin is really a great guy who is misunderstood, an endorsement.
Besides look at the money, minerals and energy. While we excoriate Canada with tariffs

Countries that refused Putin visits now have less reason to decline.
Putin is back on the world stage. Trump has been pressuring for Putin's return to G meetings before this.
If America can ?

So its back to thrashing Zelenskyy.

Poroshenko leading opposition is similarly not for capitulation.
https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/1094745.html

tdgeek

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#3405745 20-Aug-2025 06:51

Im seeing a seismic shift with the DC meeting

Prior:

Putin wont fold on his land grab, in fact his snail pace delays allow him to gain ground while "acting" towards a peace deal

UKR wont fold on the land grabs

Trump is happy to force UKR to bend over so he can get his precious Nobel peace deal

Now:

The meeting was all of Putins opposition in a strong meeting

Trump will provide paid for arms and intelligence as his contribution to security measures.

EU wants boots on the ground, of NATO troops, using an Article 5 position, if one is attacked we all are attacked.

While the last point is a no go for Putin, it appears to not be his choice. USA, EU, UKR vs Putin pushes him into a corner.

They are pandering to Trump, which is required, and its a means to an end

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#3405752 20-Aug-2025 07:14

It is not his decision.

The only good peace deal is complete withdrawal and no more claims.

Fuck Putin.

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#3405773 20-Aug-2025 08:51

freitasm:

It is not his decision.

The only good peace deal is complete withdrawal and no more claims.

*uck Putin.

100%

Putins no go on this or that is based on negotiation. There was no negotiation in Feb 2022, so the same will apply now for Ukraine and its allies. He seems t0 think he holds all the cards. Till now, he has, due to the world wanting to avoid escalations. That game is now over

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#3418534 24-Sep-2025 16:13

Trump suggesting at the UN today that Ukraine can re-take all territory lost to Russia in the conflict with the assistance of the European Union and NATO.

Seems like a huge shift in the US position, will be very interesting to see how long the stance lasts. One suspects it won't be long, given it was Trump making the statement.

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#3418535 24-Sep-2025 16:22

It seems Trump's main point is Europe should stop buying gas energy from Russia. That part seems unlikely.

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#3418556 24-Sep-2025 19:06

thermonuclear:

Seems like a huge shift in the US position, will be very interesting to see how long the stance lasts. One suspects it won't be long, given it was Trump making the statement.

Yeah I give it about 13 seconds.

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#3418591 24-Sep-2025 21:00

thermonuclear:

Trump suggesting at the UN today that Ukraine can re-take all territory lost to Russia in the conflict with the assistance of the European Union and NATO.

Seems like a huge shift in the US position, will be very interesting to see how long the stance lasts. One suspects it won't be long, given it was Trump making the statement.

Trump thinks he is a winner. If he was a horse gambler and his horse was running last, he would go to the TAB mid race and swap the bet to the horse up front.

Lets say UKR wins with the help of the EU partners, and Russia caving financially which is what is happening. At Trumps first speech it will be HIS victory speech. Painful

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