Shameful politics, shameless politicians

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MikeB4
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#1720575 15-Feb-2017 12:24

Rikkitic:
MikeB4:

Tell me how he has more tham one vote in the House? I am intrigued to know as I am sure that is reserved for one person, the Speaker of the House

Don't confuse quantity with mass. Not all votes are the same size.

That does not answer my question

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Rikkitic

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#1720578 15-Feb-2017 12:32

MikeB4:

That does not answer my question

Maybe you are asking the wrong question. If Peter Dunne wants to vote with National, perhaps he should just join National. Then he could truly be one of 120 votes in the house just like every other member.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

MikeB4

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#1720580 15-Feb-2017 12:44

Rikkitic:

MikeB4:

That does not answer my question

Maybe you are asking the wrong question. If Peter Dunne wants to vote with National, perhaps he should just join National. Then he could truly be one of 120 votes in the house just like every other member.

You keep up the line that his vote is somehow different, you previously wrote "He is not just one of 120 votes like every other member. If he was, I wouldn't object to him." You have NOT explained how his 1/120 vote is somehow different.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

deepred

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#1720587 15-Feb-2017 12:52

We have the Crusher-in-Chief to thank for these 'dirty deals' continuing to happen.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8674192/Governments-MMP-review-response-slammed

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10883866

"I regret to say that we of the F.B.I. are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." — J. Edgar Hoover

"Create a society that values material things above all else. Strip it of industry. Raise taxes for the poor and reduce them for the rich and for corporations. Prop up failed financial institutions with public money. Ask for more tax, while vastly reducing public services. Put adverts everywhere, regardless of people's ability to afford the things they advertise. Allow the cost of food and housing to eclipse people's ability to pay for them. Light blue touch paper." — Andrew Maxwell

gzt

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#1720615 15-Feb-2017 13:29

Rikkitic: I strongly dislike Peter Dunne (as a politician, of course, not personally) and I very much want him to be voted out of Parliament. He is way, way past his use-by date and he has elevated troughing off the taxpayer to an art form.

Can you explain this a bit more? To me he appears to be actually quite hard-working and productive. He's been involved in quite a lot over the years and I suspect the house is better for having him in it. It's certainly possible I've missed some news items on the 'troughing' part if you want to expand on that also.

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#1720624 15-Feb-2017 13:38

deepred:
We have the Crusher-in-Chief to thank for these 'dirty deals' continuing to happen.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8674192/Governments-MMP-review-response-slammed

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10883866

I'm not sure how the implementation of those recommendations would prevent a party deciding not to stand a candidate. I can't see it would change anything in that regard.

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Pumpedd

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#1720633 15-Feb-2017 13:51

Disappointing to see your immature views on democracy. Dunne is a long standing MP because his electorate have voted him in time after time..he is not List..he is voted in by his electorate. No deals either...National have always stood a candidate along side him. Sure his majority is waning which could be due to the people of that electorate wanting a change...not because YOu think he has past his use by date.

What is totally hypocritical is the deal being done by Labor/Greens when Little himself has said many many times he is against deal making like that. So maybe it is Little who is well past his date.

Rikkitic

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#1720659 15-Feb-2017 14:34

gzt:

Can you explain this a bit more? To me he appears to be actually quite hard-working and productive. He's been involved in quite a lot over the years and I suspect the house is better for having him in it. It's certainly possible I've missed some news items on the 'troughing' part if you want to expand on that also.

My objections to Dunne are based on different things, but two stand out: First, that he uses a dead political party that couldn’t even beat the cannabis party to maintain the perks of being a ‘party leader’; second that he plays games with the electoral process whereby National tries to lose so he can win. I find this kind of behaviour dishonourable. I find it equally dishonourable whether he does it or Labour and the Greens (or National) do it, as I hope I made clear in my original post. Just because MMP is imperfect and has loopholes, should not be seen as an invitation to take advantage of it. This is a violation of the spirit of our democracy and I think it is despicable. To me it says Mr Dunne is not a person of particularly high ethical standards. That is why I don’t like him. All he seems to care about is getting elected and preserving his perks as a party leader and Minister. I don’t think that speaks highly of him. If he wants to be an MP and support National and his electorate wants to elect him, that is another matter. He can just join National or he can run as an independent. He does not need to maintain the fiction of leading a political party that anyone cares about. Oh wait, that pays $171,000, while a backbencher only gets $156,000. Not bad for doing nothing. Then there are the added expenses and perks, of course, not to mention $282,000 for being a Minister.

As to the weight his vote carries, anyone who thinks a backbencher has the same influence and credibility as a party leader and Minister, not to mention power of patronage and any number of other things, simply doesn’t understand politics. Dunne cannot be compared to a backbencher. What he says and does goes much, much further. If he was the leader of a real party, this might be justified. In the current circumstances, it is just a rort. That is my opinion based on the public information I have seen. It is what I believe.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

MikeB4

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#1720663 15-Feb-2017 14:42

Rikkitic:

gzt:

Can you explain this a bit more? To me he appears to be actually quite hard-working and productive. He's been involved in quite a lot over the years and I suspect the house is better for having him in it. It's certainly possible I've missed some news items on the 'troughing' part if you want to expand on that also.

My objections to Dunne are based on different things, but two stand out: First, that he uses a dead political party that couldn’t even beat the cannabis party to maintain the perks of being a ‘party leader’; second that he plays games with the electoral process whereby National tries to lose so he can win. I find this kind of behaviour dishonourable. I find it equally dishonourable whether he does it or Labour and the Greens (or National) do it, as I hope I made clear in my original post. Just because MMP is imperfect and has loopholes, should not be seen as an invitation to take advantage of it. This is a violation of the spirit of our democracy and I think it is despicable. To me it says Mr Dunne is not a person of particularly high ethical standards. That is why I don’t like him. All he seems to care about is getting elected and preserving his perks as a party leader and Minister. I don’t think that speaks highly of him. If he wants to be an MP and support National and his electorate wants to elect him, that is another matter. He can just join National or he can run as an independent. He does not need to maintain the fiction of leading a political party that anyone cares about. Oh wait, that pays $171,000, while a backbencher only gets $156,000. Not bad for doing nothing. Then there are the added expenses and perks, of course, not to mention $282,000 for being a Minister.

As to the weight his vote carries, anyone who thinks a backbencher has the same influence and credibility as a party leader and Minister, not to mention power of patronage and any number of other things, simply doesn’t understand politics. Dunne cannot be compared to a backbencher. What he says and does goes much, much further. If he was the leader of a real party, this might be justified. In the current circumstances, it is just a rort. That is my opinion based on the public information I have seen. It is what I believe.

Do you think he sits on Makara Beach all day and collects his Ministers salary?

Are you saying the several thousand that voted for him are wrong and you are right? He was voted in with a clear majority

As for the voting in the house you have not answered this and clearly do not understand it. When a division is made the call Yay hay and thats it. Mr Dunnes vote is ONE in 120 thats it. I don't agree with his political views but I have met him and seen him work and he is a very hard worker in his various roles he has had over many years in Parliament.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Pumpedd

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#1720670 15-Feb-2017 15:06

I actually take a bit of offense at the title of this post...

trig42

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#1720691 15-Feb-2017 15:41

If the people of Ohariu want to vote him in, then he deserves to be there.

They (the voters of Ohariu) obviously know what they are doing. At the 2014 election, he got 13,569 votes for himself (and the National candidate got 6120), but National got 18810 party votes, while UF got 273. The voters were obviously National supporters, and gave Peter Dunne his seat back, but all their party votes (which are more important) to National. This is how MMP is supposed to work. I have no problem with it.

I do have a wee problem with Lab/Green doing a deal not to field a candidate, though if National follow suit - based on the 2014 results - Dunne would easily retain his seat (last time Nat/UF candidates got 19689 votes between them and the Green/Labour candidates 15623).

BY the way, in the 2002 election, UF had 8 seats and in the 05 election they got 3. Last time the party vote was pretty insignificant, but who is to say it will remain that way?

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MileHighKiwi

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#1720710 15-Feb-2017 15:59

He won his electorate fair and square with a significant majority. The demographics of the electorate are interesting, too.

Ōhāriu has the largest number of 30- to 49-year-olds in the country, and the second highest number of families earning between $70,000 and $100,000 per year. 69% of its population is New Zealand European, 14% Asian and 8% Māori.

They're not dumb people and from all accounts most people in his electorate thinks he does a good job.

Sociologist Jarrod Gilbert recently interviewed Dunne about drug policies and said he was impressed by his knowledge and thoughtfulness on the subject, and he was very engaging.

Bung

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#1720725 15-Feb-2017 16:17

Rikkitic:
MikeB4:

That does not answer my question

Maybe you are asking the wrong question. If Peter Dunne wants to vote with National, perhaps he should just join National. Then he could truly be one of 120 votes in the house just like every other member.

You say you don't like deals yet forget that Dunne has an overhang seat to accommodate his one man party. There are 121 MPs currently. If he joined National they would lose a seat. Do you think National put in a genuine effort to win against him?

Pumpedd

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#1720731 15-Feb-2017 16:55

Bung:
Rikkitic:

MikeB4:

That does not answer my question

Maybe you are asking the wrong question. If Peter Dunne wants to vote with National, perhaps he should just join National. Then he could truly be one of 120 votes in the house just like every other member.

You say you don't like deals yet forget that Dunne has an overhang seat to accommodate his one man party. There are 121 MPs currently. If he joined National they would lose a seat. Do you think National put in a genuine effort to win against him?

Yes, I lived is his electorate for 7 years and the National candidate campaigned as much as Dunne. Do you know otherwise or are you just stirring the pot?

Bung

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#1720737 15-Feb-2017 17:26

National didn't stand for many years then did to revive the party vote. In 2011 Key told Nat voters to vote Dunne and party vote National.

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