NZ Election 2020

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Ultimate Geek
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#2486717 19-May-2020 22:41

elpenguino:

Michelle Boag is useful to National as an unfettered attack dog. She can sit back and say the shutty things that some people (supporters) think and yet can be dismissed by current National figures as a has-been.

She keeps getting invited to current affairs program for 'balance' and loyally keeps providing partisan sound bites for the media circus.

Not a very constructive approach for these challenging times.

Im a Greens and Labour supporter but I’ve always quite liked listening to Michelle Boag on The Panel. Although I haven’t listened since that dreadful Wallace Chapman took over. I’m relatively young (30) so I never knew anything about Michelle prior but always enjoyed when she was on with Brian Edward.

Rikkitic

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#2486823 20-May-2020 08:45

Handle9:

Michelle Boag is highly qualified to comment on political matters, just as is Mike Williams.

Just because you don't like what she says doesn't disqualify her.

She's a political activist and spews just as much nonsense as the usual left wing clowns used to when Key was in power.

If she doesn't even know that the virus is named for the year and not the sequence then she has no business opening her big mouth and blathering ignorance to her listeners. There is already more than enough of that.

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tdgeek

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#2490138 23-May-2020 17:55

Ok, its over, there is a new National. Im sure this pair will do better, Muller seems to be making sure he says the right things. My worry is Finance, Paul Goldsmith. If you evert wanted Bill english, you want him now. PG has no background at all, no, PR Labour then PR National, writers a few biographies, and losing elections doesn't count. 100% behind Bridges, then changed boats just before the vote. I rate GR highly, he knows his stuff, he gives answers he gives targets. It was fair to say Labour had no experience before the last election, and thats been seen. If you rate the Finance role is crucial they delivered through this crisis. National has no JK or BE to fall back on. Dire.

As to how the new pair will fair within the Caucus, unsure. Typically they dump the Bridges supporters, which is most of the front bench. I haven't agreed with the sit on hands look at the sur[lus from no spending attitude in recent years, thats the last thing we need now, but if the experience is "retired", that is indeed dire. Crusher was probably a better bet. She is up there, known, no, she's not always a rabid tiger, but she can handle herself. I get the feeling the new pair will spend too much time saying the right thing and doing nothing. I don't want an election campaign based on " we will get NZ going again" Can you please clarify? " we will get NZ going again"

Handle9

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#2490159 23-May-2020 19:11

Rikkitic:

I just hope, if Labour gets a free path, that they actually start to implement some of the policies they claim to stand for.

For Labour to implement their policy platform they need more talent in parliament.

Ben Thomas put forward an interesting idea on the Gone by Lunchtime podcast (which I quite like). 2008-2017 it was pretty hard for Labour to attract talent as it was a train smash. No one who had other career options would go near the parliamentary party as it was a dead end. Now that it is power and polling well it should be cherry picking strong list candidates who could be immediately moved into cabinet positions after the election. The greens have also suffered without Meteria Turei who provided a lot of substance to their party.

Muller has a very effective (and IMO true) message that Ardern has a weak cabinet. Twyford and David Clark (who were both effective in opposition and put into very important jobs) have been a train smash and with a general lack of depth in the Labour caucus it creates real problems.

Handle9

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#2490162 23-May-2020 19:17

tdgeek:

Ok, its over, there is a new National. Im sure this pair will do better, Muller seems to be making sure he says the right things. My worry is Finance, Paul Goldsmith. If you evert wanted Bill english, you want him now. PG has no background at all, no, PR Labour then PR National, writers a few biographies, and losing elections doesn't count. 100% behind Bridges, then changed boats just before the vote. I rate GR highly, he knows his stuff, he gives answers he gives targets. It was fair to say Labour had no experience before the last election, and thats been seen. If you rate the Finance role is crucial they delivered through this crisis. National has no JK or BE to fall back on. Dire.

As to how the new pair will fair within the Caucus, unsure. Typically they dump the Bridges supporters, which is most of the front bench. I haven't agreed with the sit on hands look at the sur[lus from no spending attitude in recent years, thats the last thing we need now, but if the experience is "retired", that is indeed dire. Crusher was probably a better bet. She is up there, known, no, she's not always a rabid tiger, but she can handle herself. I get the feeling the new pair will spend too much time saying the right thing and doing nothing. I don't want an election campaign based on " we will get NZ going again" Can you please clarify? " we will get NZ going again"

I'm not sure what your point is about Goldsmith. He has a fairly similar background to Robertson and seems competent. He won't have any meaningful impact on National winning the election.

Top to bottom National has a more talented caucus than Labour but Labour has Ardern.

The election will be won on leadership and the economy. The bottom is coming out off the economy and a heap of people are, or soon will be, out of work and in difficult financial positions. If Labour can delay that until after the election (which appears to be their plan with extending wage subsidies) then they win. Ardern is that good as a politician.

If it happens faster then National wins - this Labour government has an appalling record of delivering their policies. None of it's blue chip policies from the last election are in any sort of state to be called successful. If lots of people are suffering a message around competence will be a strong one.

quickymart

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#2490187 23-May-2020 20:08

Sorry, who's GR?

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Handle9

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#2490191 23-May-2020 20:27

quickymart:
Sorry, who's GR?

Grant Robertson

networkn

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#2490212 23-May-2020 21:37

Grant Robertson was one of the only politicians in the Labour caucus I felt had any real credentials. After the election he was interviewed a few times and hearing him repeat the party line that there wasn't any business confidence issues and the polls were nonsense really just very offputting.

If he had come out and said "Look, we understand that Labour traditionally doesn't instill confidence in business, but we have a plan, and we will show that over the next 6 weeks and SHOW businesses they have no reason to fear conducting business under Labour", I would have thought more highly of him. He hasn't really done that mch to instill confidence since, though he is easily one of the better of a pretty poor bunch.

I'd imagine that if Labour doesn't show some really good ideas to boost the economy other than borrowing TONS of money, I expect people will start to see the emporer has no clothes. They have an opportunity..

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#2490230 23-May-2020 21:44

networkn:

Grant Robertson was one of the only politicians in the Labour caucus I felt had any real credentials. After the election he was interviewed a few times and hearing him repeat the party line that there wasn't any business confidence issues and the polls were nonsense really just very offputting.

If he had come out and said "Look, we understand that Labour traditionally doesn't instill confidence in business, but we have a plan, and we will show that over the next 6 weeks and SHOW businesses they have no reason to fear conducting business under Labour", I would have thought more highly of him. He hasn't really done that mch to instill confidence since, though he is easily one of the better of a pretty poor bunch.

I'd imagine that if Labour doesn't show some really good ideas to boost the economy other than borrowing TONS of money, I expect people will start to see the emporer has no clothes. They have an opportunity..

That goes both ways. National has to come up with something other than cut taxes and build roads. As the opposition they actually have to propose something attractive instead of just b*tching about the government. They have been totally incapable of doing that and their top talent isn't very good either.

This has been one of the weakest parliaments I can remember all round. If National had much of a clue under Bridges they would have decimated Labour prior to the COVID crisis. Instead with Bridges continuously standing on his crank they managed to screw that up.

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#2490242 23-May-2020 21:56

networkn: If he had come out and said "Look, we understand that Labour traditionally doesn't instill confidence in business, but we have a plan, and we will show that over the next 6 weeks and SHOW businesses they have no reason to fear conducting business under Labour", I would have thought more highly of him. He hasn't really done that mch to instill confidence since, though he is easily one of the better of a pretty poor bunch.

There is no way on this earth that is even remotely possible.
It’s as likely as Simon Bridges having the forthright conviction to see that he has been disliked for months and step down.

If any politician had stood up and said anything like that they would be utterly eviscerating by the opposition.

Personally I am struggling to see any depth in the National front bench.

I’m hoping the new leader improves things but I can only see them returning to the negative politics as it’s their go-to.

I can see years of austerity if National get in. It personally won’t impact me but the gap between rich and poor and the selling off of all assets is sure to occur like it did with the previous government.

Just think of the lost funds that could help fund the rebuild that has been lost by selling 49% stakes in many of our productive assets and the recurring revenue that is lost forever.

GV27

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#2490353 24-May-2020 08:24

BarTender:
Just think of the lost funds that could help fund the rebuild that has been lost by selling 49% stakes in many of our productive assets and the recurring revenue that is lost forever.

I don't think many SOEs like Air NZ are going to be paying dividends out for a while.

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tdgeek

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#2490354 24-May-2020 08:26

Handle9:

I'm not sure what your point is about Goldsmith. He has a fairly similar background to Robertson and seems competent. He won't have any meaningful impact on National winning the election.

Top to bottom National has a more talented caucus than Labour but Labour has Ardern.

The election will be won on leadership and the economy. The bottom is coming out off the economy and a heap of people are, or soon will be, out of work and in difficult financial positions. If Labour can delay that until after the election (which appears to be their plan with extending wage subsidies) then they win. Ardern is that good as a politician.

If it happens faster then National wins - this Labour government has an appalling record of delivering their policies. None of it's blue chip policies from the last election are in any sort of state to be called successful. If lots of people are suffering a message around competence will be a strong one.

IMO a quick Google shows that Roberston has a far deeper background, let alone time in politics. There is no doubt Labour won as an inexperienced party. Kiwibuild was a rank failure. Whether Labour thought they could fix the already ruined housing affordability or whether that was an election tactic is hard to know, probably both. How much they have learned form being thrown in at the deep end is hard to know, but clearly they have learned something. If the election is about the leader and Finance, then Labour wins. I doubt that blaming them for the current economic woes will go too far, they didn't cause the strife the virus has left behind. Arguably, their sticking to a one off lockdown hit won the day. Bridges wanted out of L4 soon after it was imposed, straight to Level 2, we can see how that went in many countries who put economy ahead of health, one hit is better than ongoing backlash. GR has put businesses and people first, that's the difference. Centre Left, not right and going righter from National. OTOH Labour will be blamed for the companies going under, and dropping jobs. Thats happening by Muller.Fletchers, being one example, dropping 1000 jobs in NZ isn't Labours fault, its obviously Fletchers being already in strife, and the virus broke the camels back, like Burger King and others. It comes down to will the public believe those facts or mass hysteria that Labour is ruining us.

You're right, leadership and the economy. And competence going forward. National are a gulf away from John Key and Bill English. They lost talent then with the usual retirements, and I don't see a swath of talent right now, that will probably reduce somewhat when Muller re shapes his team who are left. Ironically I see Labour/GR as far more stable and reliable right now, re Finance and leadership

tdgeek

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#2490356 24-May-2020 08:32

networkn:

I'd imagine that if Labour doesn't show some really good ideas to boost the economy other than borrowing TONS of money, I expect people will start to see the emporer has no clothes. They have an opportunity..

Borrowing TONS of money is not new, have you forgotten and the GFC? This virus makes the GFC look like a blip. Yes, we can cut taxes, that will help....thats the usual goal. And better to look after businesses as best we can instead of whinging about the in strife businesses that are failing would also be a way forward.

tdgeek

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#2490358 24-May-2020 08:40

BarTender:

Personally I am struggling to see any depth in the National front bench.

I’m hoping the new leader improves things but I can only see them returning to the negative politics as it’s their go-to.

I can see years of austerity if National get in. It personally won’t impact me but the gap between rich and poor and the selling off of all assets is sure to occur like it did with the previous government.

Just think of the lost funds that could help fund the rebuild that has been lost by selling 49% stakes in many of our productive assets and the recurring revenue that is lost forever.

Yep

Someone was commenting on why build an extra 8000 social houses? Fair comment. Two reasons. They got sold off, so Labour has been quietly building them, but you didnt read much about that in the news. We need employment now, so they have ramped that up, so help employment recover on this crisis. Just one low key example of getting things done. That is the only way out of this. But hey, I'll happily accept the requisite tax cuts when offered shortly, after all, NZ is always rolling in cash every election. You would that thought that Labour being the "workers party" that they would be all over tax cuts for the masses. No. Unwise, we cannot afford it, other ways to spend our limited resources. It makes you wonder who is conservative these days. Reduce spending, get a surplus, tax cut election day???

tdgeek

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#2490365 24-May-2020 08:59

GV27:

BarTender:
Just think of the lost funds that could help fund the rebuild that has been lost by selling 49% stakes in many of our productive assets and the recurring revenue that is lost forever.

I don't think many SOEs like Air NZ are going to be paying dividends out for a while.

Really? Whose fault is that? You are justifying the plight of Air NZ and its soon to be unemployed employees and the now lack of dividend on what? A horrific event has caused the lack of dividend. Had this not occurred, taxpayers will be receiving these SOE benefits. Now its a bad idea to hold such investments?

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