James Shaw resigns

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#3188490 30-Jan-2024 17:01

SaltyNZ:

The environment is absolutely the top priority. Just look at the credentials of some the new MPs this term - Lan Pham, Steve Abel, Scott Willis. The social justice aspect comes about because (apart from being the right thing to do) you can't have the environmental change without it. The poor will disproportionately pay the price of the catastrophes that we have locked in through past inaction, and they are also the least able to make changes to mitigate.

It appeared to me that most of the reasons they wouldn't consider a coalition with National were more to do with non-environmental ideological differences. Seemed to be cutting off their nose to spite their face to me. If the environment was truly a top priority then being part of the government also needed to be a top priority.

The credentials of their new MPs don't mean much when they're on the outside looking in.

SJB

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#3188491 30-Jan-2024 17:08

Rikkitic:

sen8or:

If still male / female, Swarbrick wouldn't qualify.

According to RNZ it can be anyone.

James Shaw resigns: How will the Greens choose a new co-leader? (1news.co.nz)

From this article it's one female and one of any gender.

Isn't that sexist?

Rikkitic

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#3188492 30-Jan-2024 17:10

I think it is more likely to have to do with matters of principle than ideology. This is one government it is far better to be on the outside of.

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OldGeek

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#3188493 30-Jan-2024 17:12

Rikkitic:

sen8or:

If still male / female, Swarbrick wouldn't qualify.

According to RNZ it can be anyone.

Not quite correct.

http://tinyurl.com/2wf7czj

So there may be co-leaders as male/female, female/female and one must be Maori. White men can only co-lead with a Maori female.

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Rikkitic

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#3188494 30-Jan-2024 17:13

SJB:

Isn't that sexist?

Yep. Just like a man insisting he only wants to marry a woman!

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Rikkitic

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#3188496 30-Jan-2024 17:15

OldGeek:

So there may be co-leaders as male/female, female/female and one must be Maori. White men can only co-lead with a Maori female.

Nitpicker. Davidson already ticks all the other boxes so it can be anything with a metabolism.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

ezbee

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#3188559 30-Jan-2024 17:58

National and Greens not a very good match.

Why would you care about the planet and the organisms living on it if you would not care about the people? People being organisms that live on the planet.

Can't see why you would ever expect Greens to not have a social justice component to their party?

Environmental programs come at a cost, so immediately question comes up on who pays and where impacts fall. So that feeds into social justice.

National is very far from being compatible with Greens, which is why they are so compatible with ACT and NZF.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-nationals-concerning-lack-of-climate-policies/2JKNFA6UL5FQVIEP5RFMJONHII/

https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/12/01/new-government-crashes-environment/

The large cuts to Government departments, across everything, are going to hit key Green areas as well.
DOC, Fisheries monitoring fishing boats, Environmental monitoring, Monitoring of industry and pollution, many etc.

Deep public transport investment is not a National thing, and the best electric vehicle is an electric train/tram with a pantograph.
Even the lack of investment in Cook Straight Ferry to support rail growth, we might just get truck ferries.

List could probably go on.

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Handle9

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#3188683 30-Jan-2024 23:53

Paul1977:
It appeared to me that most of the reasons they wouldn't consider a coalition with National were more to do with non-environmental ideological differences. Seemed to be cutting off their nose to spite their face to me. If the environment was truly a top priority then being part of the government also needed to be a top priority.

This trope got old a long long time ago.

Handle9

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#3188685 30-Jan-2024 23:59

Paul1977:

My issue here is with them still calling themselves the Greens Party when the environment is very clearly no longer their top priority.

Why does this, rather silly, standard only ever get applied to the Greens?

National don't have nationalism as their top priority, Labour aren't only about the industrial relations, ACT are more interested in cuture wars than being an Association of Consumers and Taxpayers and New Zealand First are Winston first.

It's a dumb argument.

SaltyNZ

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#3188700 31-Jan-2024 07:19

The Greens cannot credibly work with National. They don’t align on *anything*. Regardless of any words that come out of Luxon’s mouth, National does not believe in Climate Change. And to whatever extent National *does* their coalition partners are in full pillage mode so the master negotiator has negotiated to tie his own hands and feet behind his back.

The National government is cancelling *everything* the previous government did, and the only ‘pro’ environment thing they are doing is to speed up the consent process for new renewables. While a good idea, there are already GW of renewables consented but not built, so more consents aren’t going to fix any problem there. It’s a change that costs little to make and is broadly in line with their policy of ‘regulate nothing’. It’s a meaningless gesture to people who might lean slightly right but also like their house to not be swept away by a flood.

As an aside, one of the things they cancelled was the report into Lake Onslow with less than a year before it was due. Like, cancel the main project by all means if the report says it’s no good, but cancelling the report - which costs bugger-all in the grand scheme of things - just shows how hostile to the concept they are.

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GV27

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#3188705 31-Jan-2024 08:08

SaltyNZ: Regardless of any words that come out of Luxon’s mouth, National does not believe in Climate Change.

Regardless of their policies to reduce agricultural emissions, regardless of the commitment to Net Zero by 2050?

This is "just making stuff up" territory.

sen8or

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#3188706 31-Jan-2024 08:12

Rikkitic:

OldGeek:

So there may be co-leaders as male/female, female/female and one must be Maori. White men can only co-lead with a Maori female.

Nitpicker. Davidson already ticks all the other boxes so it can be anything with a metabolism.

Nothing to do with nit-picking, more making obvious the double standards.

If they had rules set up where one leader must be a white male, the other could be of any race / gender identity, the feminists, LGBTQ+ and ethnic communities would (rightly) be up in arms about discrimination, but because its the other way around, its all good?

I don't care if a leader is black, yellow, white, green, male, female, trans, gay, straight etc, what I do care about is that they are capable of doing a job and they are the best person for that job. Throw in quotas or agendas and you may end up with the right person for the job, but there will always be the perception that they just filled the quota.

SaltyNZ

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#3188708 31-Jan-2024 08:17

GV27:

SaltyNZ: Regardless of any words that come out of Luxon’s mouth, National does not believe in Climate Change.

Regardless of their policies to reduce agricultural emissions, regardless of the commitment to Net Zero by 2050?

This is "just making stuff up" territory.

I'm committed to Net Zero Crime by 2050. What am I doing to achieve it?

Well, I'm opening crime universities staffed by ex-death row inmates and cancelling all assistance for jewellers to improve their shop security arrangements. And those are just for starters. I'm making it easier for private security firms to get consent to build those little huts that the guards can sit in at the entrance to places that have stuff worth stealing, and removing all requirements for firearm licensing and registration so we can save money to put it towards the fight for net zero crime by 2050.

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SaltyNZ

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#3188712 31-Jan-2024 08:25

sen8or:

Throw in quotas or agendas and you may end up with the right person for the job, but there will always be the perception that they just filled the quota.

That's always a possibility and it was one that I had to consider carefully when I voted on the proposal. Ultimately though the Green Party leader selection process is far more democratic than most other parties where the members get little if any say at all. Who decided to choose Luxon as National leader? About 20 people, beholden to no-one for their decision. Even in the Labour Party it's possible to choose a new leader without having to go out to membership if enough of the caucus votes the right way.

Of course, if you don't like it, you can join the party. There is a constitutional review later this year to see how well the rules are working in practice.

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GV27

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#3188714 31-Jan-2024 08:30

SaltyNZ:

I'm committed to Net Zero Crime by 2050. What am I doing to achieve it?

Well, I'm opening crime universities staffed by ex-death row inmates and cancelling all assistance for jewellers to improve their shop security arrangements. And those are just for starters. I'm making it easier for private security firms to get consent to build those little huts that the guards can sit in at the entrance to places that have stuff worth stealing, and removing all requirements for firearm licensing and registration so we can save money to put it towards the fight for net zero crime by 2050.

Well that's all well and good but where is this evidence that shows me National does not believe in Climate Change again? Got any policy statements that counter-act the actual ones they have on taking action on climate change?

Because it really, really seems like you've just ranted and raved about something patently untrue. People used to call that kind of thing 'misinformation'.

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