2024 US Presidential election thread

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#3257219 7-Jul-2024 22:36

Batman: if you watch Republican news they've been showing that since 2021.

Trump was using his "sleepy Joe" line for a long time. I think you're referring to media who have tried to promote that view for a long time.

but people don't want to post any Fox/Sky(AU) videos because people on GZ will say it's fake I posted one and got called fake so i stopped

There are definitely several promoted videos around which were misleading to say the least. This one debunked for example:

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#3257237 8-Jul-2024 07:32

In two post debate Biden radio interviews, the Whitehouse sent the interviewer the questions to ask and they duly asked them.

Biden functions by teleprompter and pre determined questions. The one exception was the televised debate and we all saw what happened.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/350334792/parkinsons-expert-has-reportedly-visited-white-house-eight-times-last-august

Paul1977

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#3257296 8-Jul-2024 11:40

Rikkitic:

This seems awfully close to alt-right propaganda to me. How did the White House, the Democrats, and the media try to cover it up? I follow US political news fairly closely and I didn't see any sign of that. Yes, they pushed the line that he was okay because they genuinely thought he was okay, or at least good enough. Otherwise they never would have allowed the debate to go ahead. Biden's supporters were completely caught off guard by his debate performance. That was abundantly clear. If it surprised them then they could hardly have known it would go that way. What do you think they were trying to get away with? If you are going to claim something like this, you need to back it up with evidence.

The right-wing media has been pushing the narrative of Biden's cognitive decline for the last couple of years, and the left-wing media would constantly dismiss it as "cheap fakes". Since it now appears true that he's experiencing significant cognitive decline, on what basis did the left-wing media dismiss the previous claims? The only thing I can think of is that they dismissed the claims simply because the Whitehouse said it wasn't true, and because the reporters themselves didn't want it to be true.

So while I can almost buy that the media had convinced themselves he was OK, I find it hard to believe that the Whitehouse and the upper echelon of the Democratic party didn't know how much he'd declined (how could they not)?

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#3257358 8-Jul-2024 12:21

Paul1977:

The right-wing media has been pushing the narrative of Biden's cognitive decline for the last couple of years, and the left-wing media would constantly dismiss it as "cheap fakes". Since it now appears true that he's experiencing significant cognitive decline, on what basis did the left-wing media dismiss the previous claims? The only thing I can think of is that they dismissed the claims simply because the Whitehouse said it wasn't true, and because the reporters themselves didn't want it to be true.

So while I can almost buy that the media had convinced themselves he was OK, I find it hard to believe that the Whitehouse and the upper echelon of the Democratic party didn't know how much he'd declined (how could they not)?

First, it's not 'Whitehouse'. It is 'White House'.

Today's political right seems to be obsessed by conspiracies. Everything is a deep state plot in the Matrix to rob individuals of their 'freedom'.

As with nearly everything, there are some kernels of truth mixed into this fevered narrative. For example, a journalist has just resigned in disgrace after admitting she fed Biden some interview patsy questions supplied by his handlers. Shock horror! These things happen. Especially they happen in a political environment like the one we are currently in.

But a transgression does not a conspiracy make. The rabid right eagerly jumps on every twitch they hope they can turn into a scandal. Like Hunter Biden's (ho-hum) laptop.

The jury is still out on President Biden. No doubt his cognition has declined but as yet there is no 'evidence' as to the extent of that, only suspicion and speculation. Previous claims about his condition have not been proven and that is a pretty good basis for dismissing them. There is no media cover-up. If anything, the opposite.

Since the debate disaster, video of Biden has emerged that appears to show him functioning perfectly normally, including forceful and fully coherent responses to impromptu questions from onlookers. I am not claiming here that he has not declined beyond the point of being a functional president, just pointing out that you and anyone else with an agenda have not made a convincing case that he has.

Because this is now a hot button topic, evidence one way or the other will certainly emerge in the coming days. But it hasn't yet. So put away your knives and be patient. You will know soon enough.

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Paul1977

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#3257386 8-Jul-2024 13:49

Rikkitic:

First, it's not 'Whitehouse'. It is 'White House'.

Today's political right seems to be obsessed by conspiracies. Everything is a deep state plot in the Matrix to rob individuals of their 'freedom'.

As with nearly everything, there are some kernels of truth mixed into this fevered narrative. For example, a journalist has just resigned in disgrace after admitting she fed Biden some interview patsy questions supplied by his handlers. Shock horror! These things happen. Especially they happen in a political environment like the one we are currently in.

But a transgression does not a conspiracy make. The rabid right eagerly jumps on every twitch they hope they can turn into a scandal. Like Hunter Biden's (ho-hum) laptop.

The jury is still out on President Biden. No doubt his cognition has declined but as yet there is no 'evidence' as to the extent of that, only suspicion and speculation. Previous claims about his condition have not been proven and that is a pretty good basis for dismissing them. There is no media cover-up. If anything, the opposite.

Since the debate disaster, video of Biden has emerged that appears to show him functioning perfectly normally, including forceful and fully coherent responses to impromptu questions from onlookers. I am not claiming here that he has not declined beyond the point of being a functional president, just pointing out that you and anyone else with an agenda have not made a convincing case that he has.

Because this is now a hot button topic, evidence one way or the other will certainly emerge in the coming days. But it hasn't yet. So put away your knives and be patient. You will know soon enough.

Reporters are meant to get the evidence to prove or disprove a claim - that's the "investigative" part of investigative journalism. What did the media do to investigate previous claims that Biden's mental faculties appeared to be declining before declaring them false (other than ask the White House)?

The right claims that Biden is senile by showing a clips out of context to make it look worse than it is, but the left simply showing that it's out of context doesn't necessarily disprove the claim.

The right do love their conspiracy theories. But when you have a conspiracy theory about everything, occasionally you'll probably get one right. Is that the case here? I don't know, but it's one of the more plausible ones.

Why do you assume that anyone who points fault at something you support must have an agenda other than just pointing out the obvious problem? My only agenda is wanting people to take their blinders off and realise that just because Trump is bad, it doesn't follow that anything anti-Trump is good. IMO the entire American political and media landscape is crooked.

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#3257450 8-Jul-2024 14:56

Rest your fevered brow, my son. All will be revealed.

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johno1234

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#3257581 8-Jul-2024 19:26

Rikkitic:

Rest your fevered brow, my son. All will be revealed.

Your continual reversion to ad-hom "argument" does you no favours.

Is there a kill-file facility at GZ? I'm fully over this abusive name-calling person but would prefer not to miss out on other people's thoughts, be they from the left or right.

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#3257593 8-Jul-2024 19:58

johno1234:

Rikkitic:

Rest your fevered brow, my son. All will be revealed.

Your continual reversion to ad-hom "argument" does you no favours.

Is there a kill-file facility at GZ? I'm fully over this abusive name-calling person but would prefer not to miss out on other people's thoughts, be they from the left or right.

Am I missing something here? There is no name calling.

gzt

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#3257627 8-Jul-2024 23:14

Paul1977: IMO the entire American political and media landscape is crooked.

From NZ the USA media landscape looks far worse than it is. Nearly all the YouTube left vs right commentary is based on outrage about Fox News clips and nearly all right vs left commentary is based on outrage about CNN News clips. Both cable companies are serving very specific markets these days.

The reality is most Americans are watching broadcast news from ABC, CBS, NBC, all very middle of the road.

Even PBS News has significant market share.

neb

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#3257631 8-Jul-2024 23:43

The Ad Fontes media bias chart is extremely useful in keeping track of what's where in US media. In particular it shows that publications like the Socialist Alternative, which is literally communist propaganda, is a more reliable news source than (cable) Fox News. And that major Fox presenters like Hannity and formerly Tucker Carlson and now whoever his replacement is, are only slightly above Infowars in terms of accuracy.

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#3257702 9-Jul-2024 12:51

gzt:
Batman: if you watch Republican news they've been showing that since 2021.

Trump was using his "sleepy Joe" line for a long time. I think you're referring to media who have tried to promote that view for a long time.

Name calling aside, I quote from Robert Hur.

"Special counsel won't charge Biden in classified docs probe, despite evidence he 'willfully retained' materials"

"We have also considered that, at trial, Mr. Biden would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview of him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory," the report said. "It would be difficult to convince a jury that they should convict him -- by then a former president well into his eighties -- of a serious felony that requires a mental state of willfulness."

The report also stated that "Mr. Biden's memory was significantly limited, both during his recorded interviews with a ghostwriter in 2017, and in his interview with our office in 2023."

https://abcnews.go.com/US/white-house-finishes-review-special-counsels-report-biden/story?id=107047339

Biden challenged Robert Hur in a statement after the report was released.

So either one of them is lying, or both of them are correct - for example people have good days and bad days, I as a middle aged person know that all too well.

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#3257703 9-Jul-2024 12:55

Rikkitic:

The jury is still out on President Biden. No doubt his cognition has declined but as yet there is no 'evidence' as to the extent of that, only suspicion and speculation. Previous claims about his condition have not been proven and that is a pretty good basis for dismissing them. There is no media cover-up. If anything, the opposite.

Since the debate disaster, video of Biden has emerged that appears to show him functioning perfectly normally, including forceful and fully coherent responses to impromptu questions from onlookers. I am not claiming here that he has not declined beyond the point of being a functional president, just pointing out that you and anyone else with an agenda have not made a convincing case that he has.

Do you realise that none of the current Biden drama is narrated from the Right?

Everyone calling for Biden to step aside is a Democrat.

There is a difference between functional and effective, and maybe the Democrats know something you and I don't.

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#3257712 9-Jul-2024 13:17

Batman:

Do you realise that none of the current Biden drama is narrated from the Right?

Everyone calling for Biden to step aside is a Democrat.

There is a difference between functional and effective, and maybe the Democrats know something you and I don't.

Do you realise that fear can be a big motivator? As some media were proclaiming, (some) Democrats were in panic mode after the debate.

As I think I stated, I have not taken a position on Biden's competence. I have said that the verdict is not yet in and is still under consideration. We will know soon enough if he is up to the task. I would be interested to learn what the Parkinson's specialist had to say, though that illness shouldn't be a barrier to being president.

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Paul1977

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#3257744 9-Jul-2024 14:09

Batman:

Do you realise that none of the current Biden drama is narrated from the Right?

Everyone calling for Biden to step aside is a Democrat.

There is a difference between functional and effective, and maybe the Democrats know something you and I don't.

That's not entirely true. The right has been pretty vocal about how Trump "won" the debate, and are also happy to point out how their longtime narrative of a senile Biden is now far harder to rebut.

But, you're correct, no-one on the right is calling for him to stand down - and why would they?

I don't think the Dems have any secret cards up their sleeve. I think they made Harris his running mate in 2020 expecting her to be popular and to run in Biden's place in 2024. But because she's proven to be so unpopular that plan is out the window, so they figured they could just prop Biden up long enough to be re-elected and then have a fresh candidate in 2028, but now that's potentially out the window too. They were already on Plan B, and they have no Plan C.

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#3257747 9-Jul-2024 14:19

Paul1977:

I don't think the Dems have any secret cards up their sleeve. I think they made Harris his running mate in 2020 expecting her to be popular and to run in Biden's place in 2024. But because she's proven to be so unpopular that plan is out the window, so they figured they could just prop Biden up long enough to be re-elected and then have a fresh candidate in 2028, but now that's potentially out the window too. They were already on Plan B, and they have no Plan C.

Unfortunately I think you may be at least partly right here. But if anyone does replace Biden it will almost certainly be Kamala Harris. I don't have an opinion on whether she can beat Trump or not, but if she does become the candidate, I think she will emerge much better than many are expecting. Once she is no longer in Biden's shadow and doesn't feel she needs to defer to him, she can show what she is really made of. I think many will be surprised.

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