I withdrew from the Jacinda thread because I got fed up with all the toxic negativity about the government. I hope that doesn't infect every thread here. Some conservative commentators have a tactic to overwhelm those they disagree with by quoting reams of (sometimes doubtful) statistics, documents, opinion pieces, articles, anything and everything they can throw into the mix to create an avalanche of spurious noise to push aside all other opinion. Trying to verify all the quoted rubbish becomes too much. Some of it may be true, some may be exaggerated or flat out wrong, some may just be inflamed opinion disguised as objective fact, but sifting through it all is like trying to push the boulder of Sisyphus up the hill. That is the tactic. Win the argument with obfuscation and information overload.

Whether Obama's outcomes were terrible or not, or some were and others were not, is a matter of opinion. I certainly wish he had stuck to his red line. But he definitely had measurable outcomes or his popularity would not have remained so high. I am not confusing the two but I also am not going down that particular rabbit hole. Anyone capable of thinking that it is possible to have a 60% approval rating after 8 years with zero accomplishments is beyond the reach of rational discourse. You believe what you like. It isn't worth the effort of trying to persuade you otherwise.