Coronavirus Protests thread

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Networkn
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#2868205 14-Feb-2022 13:45

GV27:

networkn:

Dealt with how exactly?

Maybe they could have done more with the Auckland Domain protests than just asking Brian Tamaki really nicely if he wouldn't mind not organising gatherings that breached lockdown, if it wasn't too much trouble.

Be specific. What more? How exactly would you have dealt with that group that would have ensured with near 100% certainty to put a stop to any further protests?

GV27

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#2868217 14-Feb-2022 13:57

networkn:

Be specific. What more? How exactly would you have dealt with that group that would have ensured with near 100% certainty to put a stop to any further protests?

No, that's not what I'm saying, look again. I'm saying not doing something more decisive at the time made this inevitable.

You could have actually arrested Tamaki the very first time he pulled his crap while other Aucklanders were obeying lockdown rules. You could have broken up his protests on the actual day instead of calling him into the station days later.

Would it have assured you of no future protests? Of course not. Would it have shown that there is some visible consequence for being a bell-end? Yes. That hasn't been communicated effectively to date.

My main thrust here is people can't feign surprise that this has happened but it also can't go on forever. At some point there has to be an end-game.

networkn

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#2868218 14-Feb-2022 14:08

GV27:

No, that's not what I'm saying, look again. I'm saying not doing something more decisive at the time made this inevitable.

You could have actually arrested Tamaki the very first time he pulled his crap while other Aucklanders were obeying lockdown rules. You could have broken up his protests on the actual day instead of calling him into the station days later.

Would it have assured you of no future protests? Of course not. Would it have shown that there is some visible consequence for being a bell-end? Yes. That hasn't been communicated effectively to date.

My main thrust here is people can't feign surprise that this has happened but it also can't go on forever. At some point there has to be an end-game.

I seriously doubt arresting Tamaki day one would have made much of a difference to where we are now.

Breaking up protests of course can be handled a variety of ways, though these situations are more nuanced than many give credit for, and jumping right into physically disbanding people has it's downsides and risks as well. I don't want to live in a country where protesters are fired on with tear gas and bullets unless it's unavoidable. If they take up space and cause some (moderate) disruption in Wellington for a bit, that doesn't seem reason for that level of response. The government is still operating just fine with them there, even if it's less convenient.

Having said that, actionable threats or actions of violence should be met with the appropriate action by the police.

This will end, as did all the protests before it, it may require some patience. I don't think, like some others here, that 'nothing' is being done. Not all 'somethings' are visible to the public, for a variety of reasons. Inflaming them isn't going to help, it escalates things.

I agree with the mandate, but also recognize it's been a big problem for lots of people on many levels. It's expected, you can't make everyone happy all the time.

GV27

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#2868221 14-Feb-2022 14:13

networkn:

I agree with the mandate, but also recognize it's been a big problem for lots of people on many levels. It's expected, you can't make everyone happy all the time.

I'd say it's far from expected, given the fact that there are plenty of government rules or regulations that impact people every day and none of them have ever seen a week-long camp-in on the grounds of parliament.

What you're seeing is people who don't like being told no that they have to live with the consequences of a decision they've made. That's not a question of making people happy, it's about having a sulk.

invisibleman18

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#2868224 14-Feb-2022 14:25

networkn:

Be specific. What more? How exactly would you have dealt with that group that would have ensured with near 100% certainty to put a stop to any further protests?

I guess nothing would have 100% stopped it but it needs to be shown that there are consequences for breaking the law rather than just being allowed to stay there indefinitely having a dance party with music Parliament has put on for them setting precedents that you can just do whatever you want. Arrests with charges laid and criminal records acquired, cars towed rather than being allowed to block main streets for a week. Perhaps willfully subjecting children to stay outside in that cyclone all weekend with the grounds being knee deep in piss and excrement might almost warrant OT/CYFS (or whatever it's called now) involvement too. Cut their WINZ, where applicable, due to criminal activity. They've had a week now to comply with trespass orders. Why are they not being removed now?

Someone early in the thread was talking about supplying them with pizza. Why not go further and provide them alcohol and put up a canopy or temporary roof and beds for them too?

networkn

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#2868226 14-Feb-2022 14:29

GV27:

networkn:

I agree with the mandate, but also recognize it's been a big problem for lots of people on many levels. It's expected, you can't make everyone happy all the time.

I'd say it's far from expected, given the fact that there are plenty of government rules or regulations that impact people every day and none of them have ever seen a week-long camp-in on the grounds of parliament.

What you're seeing is people who don't like being told no that they have to live with the consequences of a decision they've made. That's not a question of making people happy, it's about having a sulk.

The mandate was not a decision they made.

They aren't happy with having to comply with that mandate

networkn

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#2868228 14-Feb-2022 14:33

invisibleman18:

I guess nothing would have 100% stopped it but it needs to be shown that there are consequences for breaking the law rather than just being allowed to stay there indefinitely having a dance party with music Parliament has put on for them setting precedents that you can just do whatever you want. Arrests with charges laid and criminal records acquired, cars towed rather than being allowed to block main streets for a week. Perhaps willfully subjecting children to stay outside in that cyclone all weekend with the grounds being knee deep in piss and excrement might almost warrant OT/CYFS (or whatever it's called now) involvement too. Cut their WINZ, where applicable, due to criminal activity. They've had a week now to comply with trespass orders. Why are they not being removed now?

Someone early in the thread was talking about supplying them with pizza. Why not go further and provide them alcohol and put up a canopy or temporary roof and beds for them too?

It's hardly indefinitely. The pizza suggestion was in an effort to bring the situation to a close. You are twisting the situation.

Knee deep in piss and excrement, really? Photos please? Kids shouldn't be there and I disapprove wholeheartedly with them being involved, but you are getting well carried away in your characterisation of the situation.

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GV27

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#2868229 14-Feb-2022 14:35

networkn:

The mandate was not a decision they made.

They aren't happy with having to comply with that mandate

The decision not to get vaccinated is a decision they are making. They are free to choose to do that, but that choice has consequences.

Anyway, I'm super curious to see what happens here because just sitting around and waiting for people to get bored and go home probably won't work.

invisibleman18

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#2868230 14-Feb-2022 14:44

networkn:

It's hardly indefinitely. The pizza suggestion was in an effort to bring the situation to a close. You are twisting the situation.

Knee deep in piss and excrement, really? Photos please? Kids shouldn't be there and I disapprove wholeheartedly with them being involved, but you are getting well carried away in your characterisation of the situation.

Have they suggested a date they will be leaving?

"Knee deep" may have been an exaggeration sure but there have been many news stories documenting the conditions. Here's one from Stuff yesterday where the district Police commander talks about a health issues arising from "squalor of water and defecation." Also have first hand accounts from colleagues who were in the office on Friday (office is around Thorndon New World area) that walking back down the train station the footpath along the way had plenty of poo smeared on it. But no sadly don't have my own photos as I wasn't there so relying on accounts from those who were and the words of the Police official.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300516458/sanitation-and-squalor-causing-emerging-health-issues-at-parliament-protest-concerns-for-children

In any case, I understand breaking a trespass order is a crime. They've been allowed to stay there for a week so at what point does breaking the law come with some consequence?

SJB

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#2868237 14-Feb-2022 14:55

networkn:

The mandate was not a decision they made.

They aren't happy with having to comply with that mandate

That may have been true for the protesters who were in the convoy and there for the first few days.

What you have left now is rent-a-squat.

Eva888

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#2868244 14-Feb-2022 15:19

Heard Barry Soper while driving. He has spoken to people on the ground and said that many there are double vaxxed. There is a tendency to put everyone in the same melting pot of the anti vax brigade but in fact there is now a collection of dissenters from many factions not just anti mandate.

He also mentioned that there is a crowd of people coming up from Picton on the ferry to join the protest which points to the fact this is not going away overnight and that there are people antagonised by the current actions now coming out of the woodwork in support of the protestors. I don’t think this would have happened had the situation been handled differently.

You’ve got a lot of unhappy people now gathering together sharing ideas fuelled by anger according to each's agenda growing more powerful as a crowd. It’s a tinderbox that could quickly explode.

rb99

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#2868262 14-Feb-2022 16:09

Personally, I don't think 0.01% of the population counts as a lot of unhappy people, even if they are all in one place.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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ezbee

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#2868264 14-Feb-2022 16:11

Antis that are vaccinated.
I have heard a number of claims like this on talkback with people pushing antivax talking points.
It might be real,
It might just be part of the strategy to just say you are vaccinated,
but I don't want to present a vaccination card.
I'm vaccinated why do I have to wear a mask in certain places and all that.
There are groups sharing talking points on how to get on side to deliver your message.
Theres vaccinated to keep my job but resent it ( However if you have your job you are probably not at protest ).

People buying vaccination status is a thing too.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/457695/covid-19-vaccine-health-ministry-investigates-claims-man-got-10-doses-in-one-day

Then there are those that got vaccinated and FINALLY got their divorce ! Yay ! Real Freedom !

networkn

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#2868529 15-Feb-2022 10:44

SJB:

What you have left now is rent-a-squat.

What evidence do you have that the original group are no longer represented? None I'm guessing. You might be right, but supposition provides nothing except a reason to get hot under the collar.

invisibleman18

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#2868532 15-Feb-2022 11:03

Saw this comment on Facebook under a news story about the protests in the weekend so reported to the Unite against Covid facebook page aswell as filled in an online breach report. The person was probably just trolling as I imagine many of the protesters would be unlikely to go for tests anyway, but reported just in case someone is able to check as it would be concerning if confirmed positive Omicron cases are in the crowd and out and about and bragging online about doing so.

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