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Eva888

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#293797 14-Feb-2022 11:05
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It was upsetting for me learning that a lot of children were at the protest in a cold Southerly and yet the sprinklers were turned on underneath them and music blaring into their little ears as they stood in mud.

The Wellington Bylaws decree sprinklers can not be left on unattended at this time, nor are you allowed to blare music all night, there's a curfew. Therefore you as the upholder of the law, don’t break the law yourself.

The Powers could have shown the kindness that is preached and ordered pizzas for ONLY the children to feed the little ones who were there through no fault of their own. Such action would have had more effect in softening the protestors' stance and opening them up to negotiation instead of making them angrier, more stubborn and prolonging this.

You can’t fix stupid (parents). You need smarter means. Violence, passive or other never fixes any problem and this protest has now morphed into a much bigger one. Businesses have closed because of this protest and it's time something was done to free Molesworth Street and contain the damage that has spread to Lambton Quay as well.






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Handsomedan
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  #2868084 14-Feb-2022 11:07
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I would have happily seen the authorities come in and removed the children under some law or other, then teargas the lot of them. Repeatedly. 

 

I assume they'll all be identified and given a bill for the damage caused to taxpayer land and all of the resources they are taking up? 

 

 

 

 





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Eva888

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  #2868094 14-Feb-2022 11:19
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Handsomedan:

I would have happily seen the authorities come in and removed the children under some law or other, then teargas the lot of them. Repeatedly. 


I assume they'll all be identified and given a bill for the damage caused to taxpayer land and all of the resources they are taking up? 


 


 



So the children suffer again? Imagine police coming in and grabbing your child and what violence would occur amongst the mob.

This is not going away that easily.

rb99
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  #2868097 14-Feb-2022 11:23
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Am quite ambivalent about them. I'm all for peaceful protest, even if they're a selfish bunch and don't give a fig for the greater good.

 

I also look at the constant assaults on the right to protest in the UK and don't want that here. Seems best to just completely ignore them (which admittedly is quite easy from where I live...)





“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

 

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alasta
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  #2868107 14-Feb-2022 11:42
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It's easy for onlookers to say that the police should go in like a bull in a China shop, but you have to remember that these people are mentally unstable. Who knows how violent they might become when confronted, or how many of them might be carrying concealed weapons, who whether some might potentially undertake some sort of revenge attack at a later stage.

 

The police know how to handle these situations while minimising the wider risk to themselves and the public, so people need to trust them to do their job. 


Lias
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  #2868108 14-Feb-2022 11:43
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The minute they were told they were trespassing and refused to leave they lost any legitimacy. What's absolutely amazing to me is that you have the police high command sitting there and refusing to enforce the law. People are trespassing, it is the police's job to use force to remove them. The failure to do so should result in a large number of heads rolling at police HQ. Get in there with the tear gas and rubber bullets like the Aussie cops did.





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  #2868112 14-Feb-2022 11:46
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Lias:

 

The minute they were told they were trespassing and refused to leave they lost any legitimacy. What's absolutely amazing to me is that you have the police high command sitting there and refusing to enforce the law. People are trespassing, it is the police's job to use force to remove them. The failure to do so should result in a large number of heads rolling at police HQ. Get in there with the tear gas and rubber bullets like the Aussie cops did.

 

 

 

 

Can you imagine what the Germans or the Singaporeans would do in this scenario?

 

This is "She'll be right" applied to law enforcement.

 

 

 

Baton rounds, tear gas and mounted police would be my choice.






 
 
 
 

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  #2868113 14-Feb-2022 11:46
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Mallard is being Mallard yet again, he is a complete waste of oxygen. There are laws, guidelines and many other things for dealing with these protests. They are either in breach of the law and it's a police matter, or they aren't and we allow them to have their say (I don't agree with their premise but that isn't the point). Protests can be inconvenient, it's life, it's relatively short term. Even if you disagree with their protest, they are allowed to protest. If they step out of line, there are mechanisms for dealing with it. Those who compare us to overseas where they use bullets and tear gas, I disagree with, I don't feel it requires that and I don't want to be like those other places. 

 

The police have shown restraint and also shown they will remove those who are crossing a line, and I am happy with the way they are managing that. 

 

I disagree with parents taking kids to protests for the record, but you don't punish kids for the actions of their parents. 

 

Mallard injected him into this as a flex, a boneheaded bit of stupidity in my opinion, and totally par for the course. He is engaging in an unproductive way. 


Lias
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  #2868114 14-Feb-2022 11:46
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alasta:

 

It's easy for onlookers to say that the police should go in like a bull in a China shop, but you have to remember that these people are mentally unstable. Who knows how violent they might become when confronted, or how many of them might be carrying concealed weapons, who whether some might potentially undertake some sort of revenge attack at a later stage.

 

The police know how to handle these situations while minimising the wider risk to themselves and the public, so people need to trust them to do their job. 

 

 

So we just give in to terrorism. Nice.

 

 





I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup. Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.


Lias
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  #2868117 14-Feb-2022 11:49
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networkn:

 

They are either in breach of the law and it's a police matter.

 

 

 

Parliamentary Service Act 2000:

 

26 Parliamentary precincts under control of Speaker

 

(1) The control and administration of the whole of the parliamentary precincts is vested in the Speaker on behalf of the House of Representatives, whether Parliament is in session or not.

 

(2) The Speaker and every person authorised by the Speaker for the purpose has and may exercise, in respect of every part of the parliamentary precincts, all the powers of an occupier under the Trespass Act 1980.

 

 

Mallard is legally entitled to trespass them, he has done so. They are unequivocally breaking the law, and the police are sitting there letting them do it.





I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup. Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.


networkn
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  #2868119 14-Feb-2022 11:52
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Lias:

 

So we just give in to terrorism. Nice.

 

 

Gee, you don't sound at all unhinged.


Senecio
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  #2868121 14-Feb-2022 11:53
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Lias:

 

alasta:

 

It's easy for onlookers to say that the police should go in like a bull in a China shop, but you have to remember that these people are mentally unstable. Who knows how violent they might become when confronted, or how many of them might be carrying concealed weapons, who whether some might potentially undertake some sort of revenge attack at a later stage.

 

The police know how to handle these situations while minimising the wider risk to themselves and the public, so people need to trust them to do their job. 

 

 

So we just give in to terrorism. Nice.

 

 

 

 

No we don't. We hold the police accountable to do heir job. The protestors have been trespassed, they are now illegally occupying public land and the police are doing nothing about it. 


 
 
 
 

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networkn
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  #2868123 14-Feb-2022 11:56
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Lias:

 

Parliamentary Service Act 2000:

 

26 Parliamentary precincts under control of Speaker

 

(1) The control and administration of the whole of the parliamentary precincts is vested in the Speaker on behalf of the House of Representatives, whether Parliament is in session or not.

 

(2) The Speaker and every person authorised by the Speaker for the purpose has and may exercise, in respect of every part of the parliamentary precincts, all the powers of an occupier under the Trespass Act 1980.

 

Mallard is legally entitled to trespass them, he has done so. They are unequivocally breaking the law, and the police are sitting there letting them do it.

 

 

He is entitled to trespass them, everything else he is doing is just petty and pathetic. 

 

Once he trespasses them, that's the end of his ride at the rodeo, it's a police matter. If he isn't happy with how that's being handled, he can raise it with the police themselves. There are mechanisms. 

 

The police have discretion on how to handle these matters, escalating violence isn't in the best interests of this country. 

 

 


networkn
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  #2868126 14-Feb-2022 12:00
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Senecio:

 

No we don't. We hold the police accountable to do heir job. The protestors have been trespassed, they are now illegally occupying public land and the police are doing nothing about it. 

 

 

They aren't disbanding them by force (Though, when things escalated, they did remove people previously, and I believe would do so again). Whilst it may not appear nothing is happening, that is different from there actually being nothing happening. 

 

Also, sometimes, doing nothing is a reasonable plan.

 

Just to be clear, I do not support these peoples opinions or actions, but I also think they are doing very little actual harm in the grand scheme of things, and want to have their voices heard and that's valid. If they step out of line, it's a police matter. 

 

 


Eva888

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  #2868130 14-Feb-2022 12:01
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Unfortunately other factions have become part of the protest. One holding a Trump flag is hardly representative of the views of all the others. This started off as a protest against mandates, then others with a chip on their shoulder about something joined in.

You have to consider that the original crowd will get infiltrated by bad people with agendas. I've seen it happen overseas where a few are thrown in to the mob to instigate violence, starting fires etc. This could become really serious very fast with the wrong moves.

I think they need to ask the crowd to choose say five members of the anti mandaters to act as negotiators and to be taken away to sit down with a trained negotiating team and sort this out. Pizza helps any negotiation. If you can get the original lot to go home, you can see clearer who else you are dealing with and act accordingly.

The crowd's anger needs to be dampened down without water and exacerbating the problem. No one wants to live on muddy ground in the cold forever and it should have been dealt with long before today.




rugrat
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  #2868138 14-Feb-2022 12:09
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With the arrests police have made, it looks like the going to court is a shambles. You need a vaccine pass to enter the building, plus they are refusing to wear masks.

 

I read in another article that one was let out on bail and went back to the protest.

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-convoy-parliament-protest-arrested-members-appear-in-court-refuse-to-wear-masks-show-vaccine-pass/QCIP5U4VYENVBCXFJ6R354HK5A/


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