Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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tdgeek

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#1723511 21-Feb-2017 09:52

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Fred99:

MikeB4:

Fred99:

"The markets" are ecstatic because Trump will deregulate, removing/revoking consumer protection, environmental protection, prudential controls.

Fascism doesn't need an apocalypse.

The tangerine tyrant is a bit more ominous than "populist" - he's also strongly authoritarian, and the rallying cry against his detractors is indeed that they're "liberals" which is now a dirty word in the lexicon of the stupid masses who elected him.

You two are being tricked by his buffoonery into thinking he's a harmless fool.

If you think that details like the ungodly sight of Melania reciting the Lord's Prayer at Trump's mini Nuremberg rally was "just an innocent nod to widely held christian values", then I'd urge you to think harder about why that happened and who the intended audience was. Hint - it wasn't to preach to the converted.

I am not being tricked by anyone, thanks.

I disagree. You two have been consistent apologists for Trump for this entire thread.

Such as your suggestion that Trump is a mere "populist".

We aren't being Trump apologists. We support him no more than anyone else, i.e. zero. But we are not obsessed by his antics either. This thread is all obsession, little discussion on what his ACTIONS will do. One action so far, and removed

Every page on there is about how he lies, and all the other accusations, all of which are true. But thats all that gets repeated over and over. What about what will happen to all the key issues WHEN he takes actions? Thats not discussed

Fred99

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#1723512 21-Feb-2017 09:53

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MikeB4:

The Trump style is more inline with Populism, now of course that may change but that does not mean it will morph into Fascism. The two can exhibit some characteristics of each other.

Would you not consider that sustained attacks on the free press and the judiciary to be a critical turning point in the metamorphosis?

I do. With eyes wide open - partly in disbelief at what I'm seeing - and the blindness of many to see it.

Fred99

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#1723513 21-Feb-2017 09:56

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tdgeek:

Every page on there is about how he lies, and all the other accusations, all of which are true. But thats all that gets repeated over and over. What about what will happen to all the key issues WHEN he takes actions? Thats not discussed

Why do you think Trump held a Nuremberg-style rally a couple of days ago?

tdgeek

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#1723516 21-Feb-2017 09:59

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Rikkitic:

I find the naivety of some of these comments simply stunning. You people seriously think Trump's rallies and attacks on the media are nothing to worry about? It will all be alright, Jack? He is already doing things that fall into crisis mode. It is incremental. It doesn't suddenly go boom. A tyrant undermines trust in the free press a little at a time until there is no-one left to criticise him that anyone listens to. This is what Putin did. Why do you blithely assume it can't happen in America? And it is not about foreign policy, it is about domestic policy. Even Trump is unlikely to go to war with the Chinese, and Xi Jingping could care less what he does inside the USA.

We just had a series of bad fires around the country. The way to fight fire is to be prepared, not to just assume it won't happen. That seems pretty basic to me.

If the issue is about how he acts to the media, then I am happy with that. I will not be happy if he acts out his promises on the wider world. Now, he is always like this, before the campaign, in the campaign and now post campaign. He is not undermining free press, as everyone apart from his supported know its bollocks. Fox know its bollocks, and they are GOP supporters. What is naive is that his shouting gets so much obsession. The issues, we dont hear about them. We should be hearing from him and here the progress on the wall, Obamacare, trade, and all the others, but its only about his shouting. Far too much credit being given, and for the wrong reasons.

Who is right? We dont know, but the haters say they are right and we are naive and foolish. Hardly a discussion, its obsessive.

Batman

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#1723517 21-Feb-2017 10:01

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we really need a POLL for this thread, for/against/and maybe on the fence. let the masses decide. otherwise poor souls like us only read personal attacks

MikeB4

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#1723521 21-Feb-2017 10:01

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Both Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump campaigned on Populist ideals. Populism is not something new to the United States Theodore Roosevelt, Ralph Nader, Ross Perot are examples of Populist politicians.

tdgeek

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#1723522 21-Feb-2017 10:04

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Paul1977:

tdgeek:

Fair points, he is different. But he is not doing anything, despite that his policy rants were all about doing everything.

It's also only been 4 weeks.

Very true. We don't expect all these actions to be in place now. But he came out guns blazing. The wall, Obamacare, created the ban. Ban is gone. No pregress reports on the others, and trade that is ripping the US off, and so on. Its all gone quiet. He runs a rally, its all about fake news. What about the issues? Progress reports? Nothing. because its too hard he cant just make a law, and he has commited himself. He should be covering all the issues but he has nothing to say that is good news. That is important, not the ranting that he just said and will say next week and the week after

Fred99

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#1723523 21-Feb-2017 10:05

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MikeB4:

Both Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump campaigned on Populist ideals. Populism is not something new to the United States Theodore Roosevelt, Ralph Nader, Ross Perot are examples of Populist politicians.

Yes - John Key was also a populist.

Perhaps instead of looking for comparison with other populists to reassure yourself, look at what makes the tangerine tyrant different.

Geektastic

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#1723524 21-Feb-2017 10:06

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As George Orwell wrote "the word 'Fascism' is almost entirely meaningless ... almost any English person would accept 'bully' as a synonym for 'Fascist'"

Rikkitic

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#1723525 21-Feb-2017 10:07

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There are many knowledgeable people, in the US and abroad, who think the threat posed by Trump is immediate and real. It is not just limited to a few of us on this forum. Right now RNZ has an item about a life-long Republican judge (hardly an hysterical wild-eyed radical) who is calling for Trump's impeachment and saying that 'America is at stake'. I have seen several other similar items over the past weeks from well-respected conservative establishment figures saying something similar. You can believe it or not but we are not the only ones.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/201833859/republican-judge-'trump-must-be-impeached'

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

tdgeek

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#1723526 21-Feb-2017 10:08

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joker97:

we really need a POLL for this thread, for/against/and maybe on the fence. let the masses decide. otherwise poor souls like us only read personal attacks

On how many times I get called naive and a fool? Ok

Poll who support Trump is a 0, we all know that here.

A poll on what will happen with the key issues, yes. Or perhaps where we will be in 12 months with the key issues. I have no interest in hearing how he lies, i know he does, I read that here 183 times

Rikkitic

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#1723529 21-Feb-2017 10:12

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I don't know what will happen with the 'key issues' and neither does anyone else. It is not the key issues that concern me. It is what Trump may do to American democracy.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

tdgeek

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#1723532 21-Feb-2017 10:14

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Rikkitic:

There are many knowledgeable people, in the US and abroad, who think the threat posed by Trump is immediate and real. It is not just limited to a few of us on this forum. Right now RNZ has an item about a life-long Republican judge (hardly an hysterical wild-eyed radical) who is calling for Trump's impeachment and saying that 'America is at stake'. I have seen several other similar items over the past weeks from well-respected conservative establishment figures saying something similar. You can believe it or not but we are not the only ones.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/201833859/republican-judge-'trump-must-be-impeached'

We all agree with that article, but again, it doesnt say anything. Its about his lies and faults. He is POTUS, what will he do in the US and offshore and what effect wiol that have?

Nothing on that. Basically its saying he is breaking some riues and is incompetent. We all know that. Where is WW3? Global crisis? Financial crisis, these were the buzzwords.

The effects of his policues in the US and globally? No, we will just talk about his lies and faults. If all he does is lie and break rules then get slapped, all is well, then he will be gone, either by removal or election. Then someone said here the other day if he gets impeached there will be a crisis? Obsession.

Geektastic

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#1723535 21-Feb-2017 10:16

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tdgeek:

joker97:

we really need a POLL for this thread, for/against/and maybe on the fence. let the masses decide. otherwise poor souls like us only read personal attacks

On how many times I get called naive and a fool? Ok

Poll who support Trump is a 0, we all know that here.

A poll on what will happen with the key issues, yes. Or perhaps where we will be in 12 months with the key issues. I have no interest in hearing how he lies, i know he does, I read that here 183 times

IIRC, a poll decided by the masses is how President Trump got the keys to the Whitehouse...

MikeB4

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#1723536 21-Feb-2017 10:16

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This maybe of interest...

"Populism is a political doctrine that proposes that the common people are exploited by a privileged elite, and which seeks to resolve this. The underlying ideology of populists can be left, right, or center. Its goal is uniting the uncorrupt and the unsophisticated "little man" against the corrupt dominant elites (usually the orthodox politicians) and their camp of followers (usually the rich and the intellectuals). It is guided by the belief that political and social goals are best achieved by the direct actions of the masses. Although it comes into being where mainstream political institutions fail to deliver, there is no identifiable economic or social set of conditions that give rise to it, and it is not confined to any particular social class.[1]
Political parties and politicians often use the terms populist and populism as pejoratives against their opponents. Such a view sees populism as demagogy, merely appearing to empathize with the public through rhetoric or unrealistic proposals in order to increase appeal across the political spectrum."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism

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