Shameful politics, shameless politicians

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#1721022 16-Feb-2017 09:22

Rikkitic:

MikeB4:

Voting has always been tactical and cross party collaboration and coalitions are a good part of MMP. If its up front like it is in Ohariu I see no issue. At the end of voting day the residents of that electorate will decide if they will continue with Mr Dunne or not. I don't fully agree with him however he is not past his "use by date" at 62. I am not in the Ohariu electorate so the outcome is not my issue.

My italics. That is the whole point, Mike. Dunne represents almost no-one in New Zealand.

You are actually wrong here, there are enough voters that believe he does represent them.

Your views in like threads boarder on dictatorship, because you can't see the value of a politician or council member they should be ousted.

At the end of they day democracy works on the amount of votes not a few peoples opinion of the politician.

Pumpedd

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#1721029 16-Feb-2017 09:33

MikeB4: @linuxluver I agree. I have been a National supporter for sometime but three terms is enough for a government, it is time for a change and a change of direction we are facing a huge battle that most are ignoring or denying that just is not going away.

IMO there is no alternative....Little is a union leader and is not appealing at all. I could not vote for a party that is controlled by the Unions. IF people think Dunne has been around too long you should also be looking at some individuals on Labors front bench.

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#1721030 16-Feb-2017 09:40

Pumpedd:

MikeB4: @linuxluver I agree. I have been a National supporter for sometime but three terms is enough for a government, it is time for a change and a change of direction we are facing a huge battle that most are ignoring or denying that just is not going away.

IMO there is no alternative....Little is a union leader and is not appealing at all. I could not vote for a party that is controlled by the Unions. IF people think Dunne has been around too long you should also be looking at some individuals on Labors front bench.

There is nothing wrong with Unions in general, there are good ones and there are bad ones. The PSA for example is a good one. Active Unions form a part of the democratic process and help balance things not to mention help members who are on their own in small businesses for example like the food industry.

All parties have the Good, the Bad and the Ugly its the nature of democracy.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1721045 16-Feb-2017 10:13

trig42:

MikeB4: @linuxluver I agree. I have been a National supporter for sometime but three terms is enough for a government, it is time for a change and a change of direction we are facing a huge battle that most are ignoring or denying that just is not going away.

Maybe true. But the Labour Party are a joke, and the Greens couldn't organise a pre-schoolers savings account.

Out of a frying pan, into a fire anyone? What makes anyone think a Labour-led government will be better for the environment? It certainly wont be better for the economy, or middle NZ.

My opinion, of course.

Labour and Greens would be good for middle NZ who own the right type of businesses but mostly big companies as the extra money they will give away will be spent straight away in most cases.

It may also drive a wee property boom again as everyone who gets extra might think about upsizing.

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#1721060 16-Feb-2017 10:42

dickytim:

You are actually wrong here, there are enough voters that believe he does represent them.

Not outside his electorate. Yet this very local politician still manages to exercise a very national influence that affects a lot of people he doesn't represent. If he wants to be a National Minister he should join the National Party.

Your views in like threads boarder on dictatorship, because you can't see the value of a politician or council member they should be ousted.

In a democracy everyone is entitled to have views. Anyone is free to disagree with me and to say so, and many do.

At the end of they day democracy works on the amount of votes not a few peoples opinion of the politician.

Democracy works because people can express their opinions freely.

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MikeB4

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#1721075 16-Feb-2017 10:58

Rikkitic:

dickytim:

You are actually wrong here, there are enough voters that believe he does represent them.

Not outside his electorate. Yet this very local politician still manages to exercise a very national influence that affects a lot of people he doesn't represent. If he wants to be a National Minister he should join the National Party.

Your views in like threads boarder on dictatorship, because you can't see the value of a politician or council member they should be ousted.

In a democracy everyone is entitled to have views. Anyone is free to disagree with me and to say so, and many do.

At the end of they day democracy works on the amount of votes not a few peoples opinion of the politician.

Democracy works because people can express their opinions freely.

Every politician has influence outside their constituency........ it's called Parliament.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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MikeAqua

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#1721084 16-Feb-2017 11:06

No-one in this country 'cheats' MMP. They use legal tactics that MMP enables.

Those tactics are overt. Voters get to respond to those tactics nationally via their party vote and locally in relevant electorates. The same tactics are available to both sides.

Greens have decided to flip-flop on their long-held position of being strongly against electorate tactics and employ them in Ohariu. That's totally OK because it's legal for them to do so. It's also very sensible because it avoids splitting the left vote. I can't believe it took them so long.

Mike

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#1721096 16-Feb-2017 11:20

MikeB4:

Every politician has influence outside their constituency........ it's called Parliament.

I believe what @Rikkitic is getting at is that his influence is disproportionate. If the locals really want Peter Dunne personally then it wouldn't matter if he joined the National Party. If he joined the National Party, he'd be a back bencher. But because he has his own political party, National give him the proverbial baubles in order to secure his vote.

Therefore, he is only in Parliament because of very local popularity (if it were not so, his party vote would be bigger, yes?) but his influence far exceeds the influence of any other local MP. Although it is not unfair in the sense that no rules have been broken, it certainly breaks the spirit of MMP in the sense that the opinions of those living in one single electorate disproportionately overrule every other, thanks merely to a technicality.

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#1721098 16-Feb-2017 11:23

SaltyNZ:

MikeB4:

Every politician has influence outside their constituency........ it's called Parliament.

I believe what @Rikkitic is getting at is that his influence is disproportionate. If the locals really want Peter Dunne personally then it wouldn't matter if he joined the National Party. If he joined the National Party, he'd be a back bencher. But because he has his own political party, National give him the proverbial baubles in order to secure his vote.

Therefore, he is only in Parliament because of very local popularity (if it were not so, his party vote would be bigger, yes?) but his influence far exceeds the influence of any other local MP. Although it is not unfair in the sense that no rules have been broken, it certainly breaks the spirit of MMP in the sense that the opinions of those living in one single electorate disproportionately overrule every other, thanks merely to a technicality.

Peter Dunne has held Ministerial Portfolios for many years including during his time in the Labour Party where from memory he was Development and Justice Minister.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

trig42

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#1721104 16-Feb-2017 11:29

And... if Labour/Green need one extra vote in parliament in September this year, and Dunne still has Ohariu, they will be knocking on his door offering him a portfolio I'd suggest.

I don't think he has ever said he'd only work with National has he?

Nothing wrong with that either - though I suspect if he did that, he'd find himself gone at the next election, his seat is quite Blue.

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#1721106 16-Feb-2017 11:29

MikeB4:

Peter Dunne has held Ministerial Portfolios for many years including during his time in the Labour Party where from memory he was Development and Justice Minister.

Which is perfectly fine, because in that case the whole country gets a say on it as they decide whether or not to elect a Labour government. Only one electorate gets a say on whether or not Peter Dunne becomes a minister in a National government.

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#1721111 16-Feb-2017 11:34

SaltyNZ:

MikeB4:

Peter Dunne has held Ministerial Portfolios for many years including during his time in the Labour Party where from memory he was Development and Justice Minister.

Which is perfectly fine, because in that case the whole country gets a say on it as they decide whether or not to elect a Labour government. Only one electorate gets a say on whether or not Peter Dunne becomes a minister in a National government.

Partyies are usually upfront before the election who they will have as a Coalition Partner except Winston. So you know on election day that Green Party and Labour will partner as would National and United. Given Mr Dunnes right wing leanings ( why he parted with Labour) I would doubt he will be

a coalition partner with Labour/Green, they probably won't need him.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MikeAqua

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#1721112 16-Feb-2017 11:34

SaltyNZ:

I believe what @Rikkitic is getting at is that his influence is disproportionate. If the locals really want Peter Dunne personally then it wouldn't matter if he joined the National Party. If he joined the National Party, he'd be a back bencher. But because he has his own political party, National give him the proverbial baubles in order to secure his vote.

Therefore, he is only in Parliament because of very local popularity (if it were not so, his party vote would be bigger, yes?) but his influence far exceeds the influence of any other local MP. Although it is not unfair in the sense that no rules have been broken, it certainly breaks the spirit of MMP in the sense that the opinions of those living in one single electorate disproportionately overrule every other, thanks merely to a technicality.

An independent (no party) MP who got elected would have the same influence. I can't recall any in central government although it's common in local government.

Mike

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#1721116 16-Feb-2017 11:38

SaltyNZ:

MikeB4:

Every politician has influence outside their constituency........ it's called Parliament.

I believe what @Rikkitic is getting at is that his influence is disproportionate. If the locals really want Peter Dunne personally then it wouldn't matter if he joined the National Party. If he joined the National Party, he'd be a back bencher. But because he has his own political party, National give him the proverbial baubles in order to secure his vote.

Therefore, he is only in Parliament because of very local popularity (if it were not so, his party vote would be bigger, yes?) but his influence far exceeds the influence of any other local MP. Although it is not unfair in the sense that no rules have been broken, it certainly breaks the spirit of MMP in the sense that the opinions of those living in one single electorate disproportionately overrule every other, thanks merely to a technicality.

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#1721118 16-Feb-2017 11:41

trig42:

And... if Labour/Green need one extra vote in parliament in September this year, and Dunne still has Ohariu, they will be knocking on his door offering him a portfolio I'd suggest.

I don't think he has ever said he'd only work with National has he?

Nothing wrong with that either - though I suspect if he did that, he'd find himself gone at the next election, his seat is quite Blue.

Dunne has been in a support agreement with Labour before 2002 - ???

Mike

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