https://twitter.com/sarahjaneparton/status/1493393852203700225

They are taking the piss now

Geektastic:

Lias:

The minute they were told they were trespassing and refused to leave they lost any legitimacy. What's absolutely amazing to me is that you have the police high command sitting there and refusing to enforce the law. People are trespassing, it is the police's job to use force to remove them. The failure to do so should result in a large number of heads rolling at police HQ. Get in there with the tear gas and rubber bullets like the Aussie cops did.

 

Can you imagine what the Germans or the Singaporeans would do in this scenario?

This is "She'll be right" applied to law enforcement.

 

Baton rounds, tear gas and mounted police would be my choice.

Lias:

 

The minute they were told they were trespassing and refused to leave they lost any legitimacy. What's absolutely amazing to me is that you have the police high command sitting there and refusing to enforce the law. People are trespassing, it is the police's job to use force to remove them. The failure to do so should result in a large number of heads rolling at police HQ. Get in there with the tear gas and rubber bullets like the Aussie cops did.

 

The Australian police also smashed people in the head with the butts of their guns and tear gas weapons. Do you want that also?

Removing them isn't going to change much they will just come back later.

The only way they are going to stop it is to intern them in a camp or something until it is over and that would be political suicide.

Jas777:

 

The Australian police also smashed people in the head with the butts of their guns and tear gas weapons. Do you want that also?

 

Removing them isn't going to change much they will just come back later.

 

The only way they are going to stop it is to intern them in a camp or something until it is over and that would be political suicide.

 

And the alternative - not upholding a criminal trespass order - isn't exactly a good look from a 'rule of law' perspective either.

GV27:

 

And the alternative - not upholding a criminal trespass order - isn't exactly a good look from a 'rule of law' perspective either.

 

It's pretty clearly obviously the better of the two options.

networkn:

 

It's pretty clearly obviously the better of the two options.

 

I would argue it isn't. I don't want to think about how crappy a place this would be to live if people just disregarded anything less serious than a criminal trespass order.

At the moment we are sending a message saying that if you pose enough of a threat to people and you don't want to follow laws, you won't have to.

In Canada they are freezing bank accounts, and suspending insurance on vehicles.

Is it throwing oil onto the fire?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/canadan-justin-trudeau-invokes-emergencies-act-anti-vax-protests-b982574.html

GV27:

 

I would argue it isn't. I don't want to think about how crappy a place this would be to live if people just disregarded anything less serious than a criminal trespass order.

 

At the moment we are sending a message saying that if you pose enough of a threat to people and you don't want to follow laws, you won't have to.

 

No chance you are going to get mass agreement with the supposition that a group who have occupied a space and are largely peacefully doing not much, should be rained down with batons and bullets and tear gas. If the police had actionable evidence of threats or acts of violence they would act, as they did when they removed 120 people a week or so back. The actual harm to the nation of this whole thing is an inconvenience and the fact it seems to trigger some pretty badly. The country is still running, the Government is continuing to do it's thing etc.

Having said that, the no consequences for actions is pretty consistent with how the Government has handled everything since being elected in 2017 (and that of the minister in charge of Justice. Expecting much different doesn't seem sensible.  Having said that, I don't think a different NZ Government would have approached this protest much differently, and the police are clearly taking the gently gentle approach based on what they are seeing on the ground, which probably bears little resemblance to the hysteria the media seems to be trying to incite.

More people will turn up this weekend most likely and head home Sunday night. I think we are a week or two from this being over.

rugrat:

 

In Canada they are freezing bank accounts, and suspending insurance on vehicles.

 

Is it throwing oil onto the fire?

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/canadan-justin-trudeau-invokes-emergencies-act-anti-vax-protests-b982574.html%3famp

 

Yes, if it doesn't work then all he can resort to is internment.

networkn:

 

If the police had actionable evidence of threats or acts of violence they would act, as they did when they removed 120 people a week or so back.

 

The only reason that there isn't violence or arrests like last week is the police aren't actively enforcing the trespass order. 

This is a chicken and egg situation. It's a peaceful protest because they're being able to get away with what they're doing. Ask someone who's had a speeding ticket for a single-digit infringement how they feel about the law being applied with wildly different standards of leeway depending on how much of threat you think you can pose.

The only real losers here are the millions of Kiwis who obeyed lockdown mandates, went without seeing family or friends and tried to cope with repeated lockdowns while these idiots did what they want and continue to do what they want without fear of consequence. 

Turns out we could have just done what we wanted this whole time. 

If they are peaceful then the arrests will be peaceful.
We have seen plenty of peace protests where protesters are carried away and don't resort to violence.
They don't make it easy for police, but no one gets beaten.

So if one is predicting violence they must have already acknowledged there are enough violent people there.
If you are predicting extremes of violence , then you acknowledge enough extremists.

“Security guards posted by the protesters on all the entrances to the Parliament forecourt and front lawn are now controlling access to and from the front of Parliament grounds, asking journalists and the police themselves to steer clear.”

Protesters now calling the shots. The police want to de-escalate with least harm done. With people coming and going at will I do not see this ending in a couple of weeks.

A protest with entertainment, food stalls. Running their own security etc.

Also foreign money is being provided to some protests, not sure if case NZ.

I take it the 'security guards' aren't wearing brown shirts. 
A funny sort of freedom, press not allowed to even talk to protesters who want to and vice versa. 

Anyway as we have seen in Picton they don't keep their word, its just delay and deflect.

Given that Government does have an intention to de-escalate measures anyway.
I guess they wait out the wave, and when Government does de-escalate as they said they can say they forced them.

A win , win solution.

Then focus the new army of conspiracy onto the next thing on their list.
Prepping for the next election ?
Swing Act or NZfirst further their way for votes they control or start a new Evangelical party.

GV27:

 

networkn:

 

If the police had actionable evidence of threats or acts of violence they would act, as they did when they removed 120 people a week or so back.

 

 

The only reason that there isn't violence or arrests like last week is the police aren't actively enforcing the trespass order. 

 

This is a chicken and egg situation. It's a peaceful protest because they're being able to get away with what they're doing. Ask someone who's had a speeding ticket for a single-digit infringement how they feel about the law being applied with wildly different standards of leeway depending on how much of threat you think you can pose.

 

The only real losers here are the millions of Kiwis who obeyed lockdown mandates, went without seeing family or friends and tried to cope with repeated lockdowns while these idiots did what they want and continue to do what they want without fear of consequence. 

 

Turns out we could have just done what we wanted this whole time. 

 

Nonsense. The millions of people who did the right thing, benefited as a result (their relatives aren't dead, or have long covid and the healthcare system hasn't to date been overwhelmed, though it soon will). The actions of these people have no impact on that. That's the same basic argument as saying 'x person got kfc for getting a vaccination and I got nothing when you got a vaccine that saved your life).

There are always going to be a small section of any community that won't comply, and or holds outlier views, and thankfully the impact they have on society usually is pretty minor as is the case here for now.

You are 100% right, had the majority of people refused to comply with health orders, the government would/could have done very little. People did the right thing because of the fear of health consequences not because they were worried they'd land in Jail.

I think the Government has been unacceptable soft on those people who flouted the rules, it makes me angry, but you are conflating issues.

networkn:

 

I think the Government has been unacceptable soft on those people who flouted the rules, it makes me angry, but you are conflating issues.

 

I'm not conflating issues, I'm just not pretending there won't be any long-term consequences from one group just being given almost free-reign to ignore a criminal trespass order at our capital buildings. 

Do you really think these people are suddenly going to become decent, upstanding, law-abiding people once they leave and go home?

I'm not disagreeing with you about the reality of now trying to forcibly the square, or that the cops are now in a position where they basically don't have any options left. The fact we've been snookered into this position is the bit I don't like. 

I think it's also worth remembering that the Nazis didn't sweep into power in one clean swoop - they ended up going down the political route after the Beer Hall Pustch failed. Even if the consequences of this don't bear out today,  or tomorrow, or this year, the failure to intervene earlier could embolden the wrong people to cause significant unrest in the future. I feel just basically letting them take over the grounds of parliament is a symbolic failure that we may come to seriously regret and regard as a turning point, but I desperately hope I am wrong about that.