Ge0rge: I might not be too clever, but I don't get the cartoon. "The Invader" is the mouth of NZ, and the rest of NZ is behind it?

 

Point taken.  😐

It's a US cartoon.

I included it to point out that the Christchurch massacre was getting plenty of coverage in the USA.

Kyanar:

 

BarTender:

 

But at least they took the content down albeit slowly. Certain Cloudflare hosted sites still have the video freely for download and celebrate having it while telling people to f..koff if requested to take it down.

 

Hence why those sites are very simplistically blocked via DNS.

 

 

Cloudflare themselves are no better.

 

This was my whole argument.

Cloudflare don't give a s..t about the fact they are earning money from protecting vile web sites. They only "seem" to appear to care about Child Porn but that seems under duress.

I think they are a terrible company with no ethics or morals and only care about the money they are earning from vile sites.

Yes I know Geekzone runs through Cloudflare and ultimately it's a moral and financial decision I am NOT going to pressure @freitasm to move Geekzone away from Cloudflare. Ultimately it is own decision on the ethics and morals of staying with them and I will support him with whatever decision he makes.

BarTender:

 

Yes I know Geekzone runs through Cloudflare and ultimately it's a moral and financial decision I am NOT going to pressure @freitasm to move Geekzone away from Cloudflare. Ultimately it is own decision on the ethics and morals of staying with them and I will support him with whatever decision he makes.

 

You should win an award for that dancing manoeuvre 😀  Well done!

I'm somewhat concerned that almost all the focus seems to be on gun law reform and the video uploading and sharing aspects of social media. Very little is being said about how to change the political and social climate that fuels extremism.

Don't get me wrong, I support gun law reform and improved mechanisms to curb the sharing of objectionable material. However both of these are aimed at minimizing the damage that can be done after a person has already become radicalized, in and of themselves they are not a solution.

They are the "easy" things to do, and while they should be done I see a danger of people mistakenly thinking they are a solution. I see them as a (much needed) ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

Indeed, measures like this will actually be seen by hard right extremists as further justification for their beliefs.

By all means, treat the symptoms - but we mustn't lose sight of the much harder goals of curing and vaccinating against the disease.

Paul1977:

 

I'm somewhat concerned that almost all the focus seems to be on gun law reform and the video uploading and sharing aspects of social media. Very little is being said about how to change the political and social climate that fuels extremism.

 

Don't get me wrong, I support gun law reform and improved mechanisms to curb the sharing of objectionable material. However both of these are aimed at minimizing the damage that can be done after a person has already become radicalized, in and of themselves they are not a solution.

 

They are the "easy" things to do, and while they should be done I see a danger of people mistakenly thinking they are a solution. I see them as a (much needed) ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

 

Indeed, measures like this will actually be seen by hard right extremists as further justification for their beliefs.

 

By all means, treat the symptoms - but we mustn't lose sight of the much harder goals of curing and vaccinating against the disease.

 

Agree. That has been raised but got over ridden by the other issues. I expect once the inquiry has completed, that there may be some transparency over what could have or should have been found, or not, whatever the case may be. Volume of data is one issue. And a greater awareness of everyone, public included, of exposing extremism. Exposing extremist behaviour in whatever form, needs to be standard practice. The easy options will change little, if anything

tdgeek:

 

Agree. That has been raised but got over ridden by the other issues. I expect once the inquiry has completed, that there may be some transparency over what could have or should have been found, or not, whatever the case may be. Volume of data is one issue. And a greater awareness of everyone, public included, of exposing extremism. Exposing extremist behaviour in whatever form, needs to be standard practice. The easy options will change little, if anything

 

Exposing it is one thing, but what can be done to prevent it in the first place?

The most important, but most difficult, part is to prevent people becoming extremist in the first place.

Paul1977:

 

tdgeek:

 

Agree. That has been raised but got over ridden by the other issues. I expect once the inquiry has completed, that there may be some transparency over what could have or should have been found, or not, whatever the case may be. Volume of data is one issue. And a greater awareness of everyone, public included, of exposing extremism. Exposing extremist behaviour in whatever form, needs to be standard practice. The easy options will change little, if anything

 

 

Exposing it is one thing, but what can be done to prevent it in the first place?

 

The most important, but most difficult, part is to prevent people people extremist in the first place.

 

I don't think you can ever remove bad sectors of society. The realistic goal would be to get early warning signs from these people and shut them down, intercept plans and stop those plans from being carried out. It can only really be cat and mouse, but if we can keep ahead, even a small amount that's a gain.  

tdgeek:

 

I don't think you can ever remove bad sectors of society. The realistic goal would be to get early warning signs from these people and shut them down, intercept plans and stop those plans from being carried out. It can only really be cat and mouse, but if we can keep ahead, even a small amount that's a gain.  

 

I only half agree.

Short, and even medium term, you are probably right. But I think we should have loftier goals for the long term.

It can't be credibly denied that extremism (particularly hard right) isn't on the increase worldwide. There will always be bad people no matter what you do, but I don't believe that it was inevitable that every extremist was going to turn out that way.

These are huge worldwide societal and political issues, and I don't have an answer.

EDIT: Typo

It's also not like there isn't plenty of examples that Cloudflare fundamentally don't care about any vile sites they protect unless law enforcement tells them they must and then only under duress. Free speech after all. 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/cloudflare-cybersecurity-terrorist-groups_us_5c127778e4b0835fe3277f2f

https://www.techspot.com/news/77884-web-giant-cloudflare-reportedly-providing-service-seven-terrorist.html

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/12/19/cloudflare_terror_groups/

You know you've got a problem with White Supremacists when even the gangs are coming out and providing support.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12214449