2024 US Presidential election thread

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#3265510 28-Jul-2024 12:16

Bernie Sanders is working hard to get Harris elected in November. Sanders has not formally endorsed Harris yet and explains why:

Interview starts 28 seconds in. Tldw; Harris has yet to formally adopt some of Biden's policy positions and Sanders believes that should go further in some areas like healthcare. I imagine Harris will announce some of that in the leadup to, and at the Democratic Party convention in late August.

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#3265511 28-Jul-2024 12:22

SJB: As usual with Trump and his limited intellect his argument came out all wrong and it sounded like he said that he's going to try and get rid of elections.

Trump tried to get rid of one election. There is every reason to believe he will try to get rid of another if he has the opportunity. Trump being Trump and his inner core team being handpicked and even more radical than the last bunch it is safe to assume there have been some discussions about it already.

quickymart

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#3265527 28-Jul-2024 13:31

The orange buffoon has talked about "terminating" parts of the Constitution he doesn't like/agree with, so I wouldn't put it past him to try anything.

Having said that, I don't think such a process to do something like this even exists?

TeaLeaf

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#3265531 28-Jul-2024 13:32

SJB:

As usual with Trump and his limited intellect his argument came out all wrong and it sounded like he said that he's going to try and get rid of elections.

Which version do you actually believe? lol. He even said it twice.

quickymart:

Having said that, I don't think such a process to do something like this even exists?

He needs 2/3 of Congress and Senate is my understanding. Which is not beyond the realms of possibility but unlikely.... unless those heritage guys have found a way nobody is aware of...

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#3265532 28-Jul-2024 13:33

quickymart:

The orange buffoon has talked about "terminating" parts of the Constitution he doesn't like/agree with, so I wouldn't put it past him to try anything.

Having said that, I don't think such a process to do something like this even exists?

That would be amendments. These need to be approved by Congress and ratified by a majority of states.

It's not easy.

TeaLeaf

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#3265550 28-Jul-2024 14:22

It cant of done his polls any good. He carries about 10% non base swing voters. Im not sure how many non hardcore christian women are in his ~46% either, with Vances comments last week.

Kamala is clearly reaching out to the younger audience as well, in fact 100k new young voters out there.

So now all she has to do is keep saying the same stuff, but appeal to those struggling post pandemic, she needs to find a way to find out exactly who is struggling and tell them she is listening and will help with XYZ $ support. and if Mark Kelly (I hope get gets veep) can draw in some more male white voters to over 40%, hopefully Barrack increases her 85% black male voters. If all that happens, whacko Trump is toast.

Hes already back to the "rhetoric" the worst candidate of all time type comments etc. What a misogynist twirp.

neb

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#3265554 28-Jul-2024 14:33

quickymart: Having said that, I don't think such a process to do something like this even exists?

It's not impossible. He creates some sort of emergency, then demands temporary emergency powers to deal with it, let's called it the Reichstag Fire Decree just to pick an arbitrary name, then uses it to install his patsies everywhere he needs them and remove any opposition, then with little to no opposition left makes it law with, again just a random name pick, Enabling Act, and at that point the existence of the constitution is irrelevant.

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#3265570 28-Jul-2024 15:45

SJB: Jennifer Aniston criticises JD Vance's 'childless cat ladies' comment - BBC News

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gzt

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#3265573 28-Jul-2024 16:40

Vance has really put his foot in it.

TeaLeaf

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#3265576 28-Jul-2024 16:56

neb:

It's not impossible. He creates some sort of emergency, then demands temporary emergency powers to deal with it, let's called it the Reichstag Fire Decree just to pick an arbitrary name, then uses it to install his patsies everywhere he needs them and remove any opposition, then with little to no opposition left makes it law with, again just a random name pick, Enabling Act, and at that point the existence of the constitution is irrelevant.

this is my worry, rather than anything above board and legal occurring, something along these lines. So many leading scholars on autocrats are saying you take them at their word. He means what he says, do not try dismiss it as him clowning around.

Harris is getting amazing volunteer grass root swell, it is incredible, but she needs a small army of influencers too.

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#3265585 28-Jul-2024 17:20

I think it's more likely they would try to make it harder for their opponents to vote and so easier for them to win. Get rid of postal voting and restricting voter registration are two ways that come to mind.

Elections would be held so they could say it was democratic but in reality there could only be one outcome.

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#3265594 28-Jul-2024 17:35

SJB:

As current VP would Harris certify the election results the same way Pence did?

She could be certifying her own victory.

VP doesn't certify, just presides over process. No power to change anything. That is what Pence realised and Trump didn't.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

TeaLeaf

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#3265598 28-Jul-2024 17:57

SJB:

I think it's more likely they would try to make it harder for their opponents to vote and so easier for them to win. Get rid of postal voting and restricting voter registration are two ways that come to mind.

Elections would be held so they could say it was democratic but in reality there could only be one outcome.

Could they remove postal voting without Congress and then Senate support? (they already tried this year didnt they?)

Very interested to see what Biden comes up with for making SCOTUS more fair and less easily corrupted next week. I think the constitution needs to state no person is above law including the president like Biden said. How he gets that done now, who knows.

Just on VP for the dems, my gut tells me it will be Shapiro. They need a superb talker and attack dog. as much as I like Kelly, hes not that. But then you don't get to his position without being a handy talker, plus one sun belt would be handy, but plenty of the rust belts still need a lot of work.

While I think Harris needs to show substance, especially Border and Inflation (helping out those in desperate need). I still think this is a record for a candidate and I think she's unlocking both the never Trumper Repubs and the Democrats disillusioned by the debate. I hope she goes on with the first woman regardless of colour to become President. So many doubters but she is competent the more responsibility she takes on.

Its hard, Trump is the worst politician in history but has fooled the southern christians and the southern hill billys, where Harris has to still be a capable politician.

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#3265614 28-Jul-2024 19:45

Rikkitic:

SJB:

As current VP would Harris certify the election results the same way Pence did?

She could be certifying her own victory.

VP doesn't certify, just presides over process. No power to change anything. That is what Pence realised and Trump didn't.

This is right, the Vice President role of counting the votes is purely ministerial, nothing more.

This reminded me of this (lengthy but relevant) passage in Peril by Bob Woodward, when Pence was seeking the advice of Dan Quayle (remember him?) as Trump kept harping on about how Pence could just unilaterally change the 2020 election results:

In late December, Pence phoned former vice president Dan Quayle. At 74, the once boyish looking Quayle was living the private, golf-playing life he loved in Arizona.
The two men shared a unique profile: Indiana Republicans who had become vice president.
Pence wanted advice. Despite the Electoral College casting its ballots for Biden on December 14, Trump was convinced that Pence could throw the election to Trump on January 6, when Congress certified the final count. Pence explained to his fellow Indianan that Trump was pressuring him to intervene to ensure Biden would not secure the needed 270 votes during the certification and push the election to a vote in the House of Representatives.
If thrown to the House, there was a twist. And Trump was fixated on the twist, Pence said. It was the provision that could keep Trump in power. While the Democrats held the current House majority, the 12th Amendment of the Constitution stated the voting on a contested election would not be done by a simple majority vote.
Instead, the amendment states that the election vote would be counted in blocs of state delegations, with one vote per state:
If no person have such majority… the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote.

Republicans now controlled more delegations in the House of Representatives, meaning Trump would likely win if the chamber ended up deciding the victor.
Quayle thought Trump’s suggestion was preposterous and dangerous. He recalled his own January 6—January 6, 1993—28 years earlier. As vice president and president of the Senate, he had to certify the victory of Bill Clinton and Al Gore, who had trounced Bush and Quayle.
He had researched his duties. He had read and reread the 12th Amendment. All he had to do was count the votes.
"The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted."
That was it.
Trump’s effort to cajole Pence was a dark, Rube Goldberg–like fantasy, Quayle believed, and could precipitate a constitutional crisis.
“Mike, you have no flexibility on this. None. Zero. Forget it. Put it away,” Quayle said.
“I know, that’s what I’ve been trying to tell Trump,” Pence said. “But he really thinks he can. And there are other guys in there saying I’ve got this power. I’ve—”
Quayle interrupted him.
“You don’t, just stop it,” he said.
Pence pressed again. It was easy for Quayle to make a blanket statement from political winter. He wanted to know, veep to veep, whether there was even a glimmer of light, legally and constitutionally, to perhaps put a pause on the certification if there were ongoing court cases and legal challenges.
“Forget it,” Quayle repeated.
Pence finally agreed acting to overturn the election would be antithetical to his traditional view of conservatism. One man could not effectively throw the election to the House of Representatives.
Quayle told Pence to let it go.
“Mike, don’t even talk about it,” he said.
Pence paused.
“You don’t know the position I’m in,” he said.
“I do know the position you’re in,” Quayle said. “I also know what the law is. You listen to the parliamentarian. That’s all you do. You have no power. So just forget it.”
Pence told Quayle that he had studied the video from January 6, 1993. It was on the C-SPAN website’s archive. Many of the people in the footage were now dead, including then House Speaker Tom Foley, a Democrat who shook Quayle’s hand as the vice president opened the session.
“Mine was pretty simple,” Quayle chuckled. “You announce it, and you go on.” Quayle turned to Trump’s assertion that the election had been stolen from him. He told Pence those statements were ridiculous and eroded public trust.
“There’s no evidence,” Quayle said.
“Well, there’s some stuff out in Arizona,” Pence said, updating Quayle on the Trump campaign’s legal efforts there. There was a lawsuit in federal court to compel Arizona’s governor to “decertify” Biden’s win in the state, which had enraged Trump ever since Fox News called Arizona for Biden at 11:20 p.m. on election night.
“Mike, I live in Arizona,” Quayle said. “There’s nothing out here.”
Quayle sensed that Pence knew that, but Pence was careful to offer a few lines straight from Trump’s talking points about how the process needed to unfold in the courts. Quayle suspected Pence had a marathon of Trump conversations ahead. Still, Quayle said, it is nonsense to say the election was stolen, and to even entertain the idea of blocking Biden in January.
They soon turned to rosier topics, such as what life is like for a former vice president.

I am still grateful that Pence put his country before his party and certified the election for Biden, as per the Constitution, not what Trump wanted. James on the other hand...

gzt

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#3265618 28-Jul-2024 20:42

When you look at how nutty the alternative slate of electors aka false electors scheme was and they almost got away with it - praise be to Mike Pense for not validating that - it is not hard to imagine similar crazed shenanigans for constitutional amendments. It's not out of the question at all.

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