http://www.38north.org/2017/10/mzagurek100417/

Fred99:

http://www.38north.org/2017/10/mzagurek100417/

rugrat:

Fred99:

 

http://www.38north.org/2017/10/mzagurek100417/

 

And they let it get to this situation by trying to solve by diplomacy.

As they keep trying to solve by talk/sanctions he gets bigger range missiles and more powerful bombs.

Once he has whole world in range he can blackmail the planet for what ever he wants. Take me out and you all go down as well. My opinion on it, the cost is so high to go to war now because they tried to talk, and as they keep talking that cost will keep rising.

Yes and no.
I don't think coming to a meeting table with a publicly stated non-negotiable bottom line is ever going to result in lasting agreement.
Both sides are guilty of that.

I also don't think sanctions against isolationist dictatorships works as a "diplomatic pressure" tactic.  Could be quite effective as a siege tactic, starve them before you invade, but then you've still got to invade - and the king of that castle has some big bombs.

Fred99:

rugrat:

Fred99:

http://www.38north.org/2017/10/mzagurek100417/

And they let it get to this situation by trying to solve by diplomacy.

As they keep trying to solve by talk/sanctions he gets bigger range missiles and more powerful bombs.

Once he has whole world in range he can blackmail the planet for what ever he wants. Take me out and you all go down as well. My opinion on it, the cost is so high to go to war now because they tried to talk, and as they keep talking that cost will keep rising.

Yes and no.
I don't think coming to a meeting table with a publicly stated non-negotiable bottom line is ever going to result in lasting agreement.
Both sides are guilty of that.

I also don't think sanctions against isolationist dictatorships works as a "diplomatic pressure" tactic.  Could be quite effective as a siege tactic, starve them before you invade, but then you've still got to invade - and the king of that castle has some big bombs.

tdgeek:

Fred99:

 

rugrat:

Fred99:

 

 

 

http://www.38north.org/2017/10/mzagurek100417/

 

 

 

And they let it get to this situation by trying to solve by diplomacy.

As they keep trying to solve by talk/sanctions he gets bigger range missiles and more powerful bombs.

Once he has whole world in range he can blackmail the planet for what ever he wants. Take me out and you all go down as well. My opinion on it, the cost is so high to go to war now because they tried to talk, and as they keep talking that cost will keep rising.

 

 

 

Yes and no.
I don't think coming to a meeting table with a publicly stated non-negotiable bottom line is ever going to result in lasting agreement.
Both sides are guilty of that.

 

 

 

I also don't think sanctions against isolationist dictatorships works as a "diplomatic pressure" tactic.  Could be quite effective as a siege tactic, starve them before you invade, but then you've still got to invade - and the king of that castle has some big bombs.

 

By both sides you mean NK vs the rest of the world including the UN?

One wants to be a nuclear power the other side wants disarmament. Side A has already won.

No - I mean go back and look at the situation surrounding NK's pullout from the NNPT - and since.

The situation now is the product of that.  Happened shortly after "W" illegally invaded Iraq, on a trumped-up (no pun intended) claim by the USA that Saddam had WMD, and threats that they'd take the action they did if he didn't dispose of them.  With that example, if you were evil tyrant KJU,WWYD?  Trust America and disarm?  I don't think so.

The USA is culpable for contributing to the creation the present situation.  China knows this, and has NK's back. 

Kim Jong Un is a "madman"who is "on a suicide mission for himself."

 

Kim's actions are not those of a maniacal provocateur but a "rational actor" who is motivated by clear, long-term goals that revolve around ensuring regime survival.

 

There's a clarity of purpose in what Kim Jong Un has done'.

 

Waking up one morning and deciding he wants to nuke Los Angeles is not something Kim Jong Un is likely to do.  He wants to rule for a long time and die peacefully in his own bed.

 

I see NK says diplomacy is off the table till their nuclear capability can reach east coast of the US, then talks can happen.

Its a bottom line at least I guess

No need for talks if they keep their nukes.

World wouldnt tolerate Iran having nukes, so what the difference?

and

What would have happened to Iran if they kept up their nuke program? I trust Iran way more than NK.

Pumpedd:

 

No need for talks if they keep their nukes.

 

World wouldnt tolerate Iran having nukes, so what the difference?

 

and

 

What would have happened to Iran if they kept up their nuke program? I trust Iran way more than NK.

 

 

 

I do too. Iran may not the the ideal regime to have nukes but its miles ahead trustwise, of a madman like KJU and others in the past such as Amin, the H man and so on.

Tone down the nukes and lets talk a bit.  Or, up the nukes, and we will have 88 targeted at your country, masses of anti nuke means between us, no talks, we will isolate you. You will soon become a China only problem. Everyone else has many defences up and doesnt want to know

Why the hell would KJU want to talk to the Trump administration?

Trump's just proved beyond doubt his wish and intent to dishonour agreements with Iran - which took years of negotiation.

The USA cannot be trusted - even if a deal could be reached with one administration, regime change and internal partisan politics can reverse it.

Fred99:

 

Why the hell would KJU want to talk to the Trump administration?

 

Trump's just proved beyond doubt his wish and intent to dishonour agreements with Iran - which took years of negotiation.

 

The USA cannot be trusted - even if a deal could be reached with one administration, regime change and internal partisan politics can reverse it.

 

KJU said he WILL talk to the administration.

Not until they have NYC reaching nuclear warheads. By them there will be a new POTUS so it can start over again.

tdgeek:

 

Fred99:

 

Why the hell would KJU want to talk to the Trump administration?

 

Trump's just proved beyond doubt his wish and intent to dishonour agreements with Iran - which took years of negotiation.

 

The USA cannot be trusted - even if a deal could be reached with one administration, regime change and internal partisan politics can reverse it.

 

 

KJU said he WILL talk to the administration.

 

 

 

Not until they have NYC reaching nuclear warheads. By them there will be a new POTUS so it can start over again.

 

Makes sense to only want to talk to your declared enemy when he's been holding a gun at your head, to have a gun pointed straight at his head too.

Fred99:

 

tdgeek:

 

Fred99:

 

Why the hell would KJU want to talk to the Trump administration?

 

Trump's just proved beyond doubt his wish and intent to dishonour agreements with Iran - which took years of negotiation.

 

The USA cannot be trusted - even if a deal could be reached with one administration, regime change and internal partisan politics can reverse it.

 

 

KJU said he WILL talk to the administration.

 

 

 

Not until they have NYC reaching nuclear warheads. By them there will be a new POTUS so it can start over again.

 

 

Makes sense to only want to talk to your declared enemy when he's been holding a gun at your head, to have a gun pointed straight at his head too.

 

It does. Did KJU start his nuclear programme since Trump or before?  Trump is an afterthought in this issue, late to the party, clearly KJU has set his endgoal some time ago. KJU's goal, while exacerbated by Trump would apply irregardless who was POTUS.

tdgeek:

 

Fred99:

 

tdgeek:

 

Fred99:

 

Why the hell would KJU want to talk to the Trump administration?

 

Trump's just proved beyond doubt his wish and intent to dishonour agreements with Iran - which took years of negotiation.

 

The USA cannot be trusted - even if a deal could be reached with one administration, regime change and internal partisan politics can reverse it.

 

 

KJU said he WILL talk to the administration.

 

 

 

Not until they have NYC reaching nuclear warheads. By them there will be a new POTUS so it can start over again.

 

 

Makes sense to only want to talk to your declared enemy when he's been holding a gun at your head, to have a gun pointed straight at his head too.

 

 

It does. Did KJU start his nuclear programme since Trump or before?  Trump is an afterthought in this issue, late to the party, clearly KJU has set his endgoal some time ago. KJU's goal, while exacerbated by Trump would apply irregardless who was POTUS.

 

North Korea started their nuclear programme well before Trump took office

MikeB4:

 

tdgeek:

 

Fred99:

 

tdgeek:

 

Fred99:

 

Why the hell would KJU want to talk to the Trump administration?

 

Trump's just proved beyond doubt his wish and intent to dishonour agreements with Iran - which took years of negotiation.

 

The USA cannot be trusted - even if a deal could be reached with one administration, regime change and internal partisan politics can reverse it.

 

 

KJU said he WILL talk to the administration.

 

 

 

Not until they have NYC reaching nuclear warheads. By them there will be a new POTUS so it can start over again.

 

 

Makes sense to only want to talk to your declared enemy when he's been holding a gun at your head, to have a gun pointed straight at his head too.

 

 

It does. Did KJU start his nuclear programme since Trump or before?  Trump is an afterthought in this issue, late to the party, clearly KJU has set his endgoal some time ago. KJU's goal, while exacerbated by Trump would apply irregardless who was POTUS.

 

 

North Korea started their nuclear programme well before Trump took office

 

And long before Kim Jong Un took office.

Timeline here.

Interesting summary here:

 

The ineffectiveness of current arms control and counter-proliferation efforts has helped to create an environment in which North Korea, allegedly using smuggled, Russian-designed ballistic missile engines, is rapidly advancing its nuclear ambitions with apparent impunity, at great risk to international stability.

 

Multilateral arms control failures also mean the Korean “solution” Trump talks about with increasing frequency – the use of preventive military action, notwithstanding its illegality under international law – could, if applied, spell the end of deterrence and the beginning of an unchecked global nuclear arms race.