The politicisation of NZ's covid response

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Forums › Politics › The politicisation of NZ's covid response

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Networkn
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#2892563 26-Mar-2022 22:07

I only personally know one Anti Mandate person who is also anti vaxx. That person is (very) gainfully employed and (likely) pays a ton of tax, was coaching kids sport and is a significant member of the club he is in.

The others are vaccinated (So they say and I have no reason to doubt them).

There are *some* loopy people running around with some stupid and dangerous ideas and are busy trying to spread that nonsense, no doubt, but people should be careful just tarring people with a specific brush in my opinion.

quickymart

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#2892573 26-Mar-2022 23:39

Oddly, I don't know anyone who is vaccinated but is anti-mandate - all the people I know who are antivaxx are also against the mandate. So, I'm basing what I know on my personal experience, which is (from my observations) that the two do go hand in hand. If you think I'm wrong, well, so be it., I can't do much about that. But all I know is what I see.

In any case, I still don't think the protesters were in the right - and when you add in people like Tamaki and his idiotic crowd as well as Voices for Freedom (both of whom were there), what are the rest of us meant to think? Those two groups just turned up for the free sausage sizzle? I highly doubt it. Ditto Leighton Baker and his daughter spreading as many ridiculous conspiracy theories as she possibly can, as well as Liz Gunn, who seems to have dropped off the radar after "getting sick with something".

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#2892580 27-Mar-2022 06:39

Technofreak: We were discussing a news item about the visit of Messrs Luxon and Bishop to a business run by two people who supported the anti mandate protest. Nowhere was there any mention about them being anti vax or that they supported the idiots who perpetuated the violence.

Like everyone else down there Goodman was happily running around without a mask in a potentially high sea of covid. Not sensible. Not a particularly nice risk for the business or it's employees either. To me this aspect was always one of the odd things about the parliament protest.

Rikkitic

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#2892639 27-Mar-2022 08:59

Is there any kind of data, anecdotal, estimated or otherwise, on the number of people at the protest who did come down with Covid?

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ezbee

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#2892903 27-Mar-2022 19:57

Rikkitic:

Is there any kind of data, anecdotal, estimated or otherwise, on the number of people at the protest who did come down with Covid?

I would say a whole bunch would not be comming forward anyway.
Towards the end of the protest we did have news that Wellington hospital was having problems with certain people they had to admit.

There is this.
Feb 27
https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/02/27/7-covid-cases-connected-to-wellington-protest-3-in-hospital/

Feb 27
https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/02/28/ardern-calls-protest-covid-camp-after-17-cases-linked-to-it/

Mar 7th
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/462884/covid-19-28-parliament-protesters-believed-to-have-tested-positive

BarTender

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#2892915 27-Mar-2022 21:13

Technofreak: While anti vax and anti mandate generally go hand in hand there is a good number of people who are vaccinated and anti mandate.

The significant majority of those who attended the protest did so in a non violent manner.

I completely disagree with this statement. Having had friends of mine abused, children spat at and abused and personally received threatening behavior when I walked around the periphery on the 3rd day.

Anyone who remained on the grounds after the first day were in it for the long haul with the express desire to bring down the government.

The non-violent ones did nothing to eject the ones displaying openly nationalist symbols and all sorts of vile. So they are equally as culpable for the violence at the end. I think this tweet summed it up nicely:

https://twitter.com/Te_Taipo/status/1492656497649610753

Technofreak: Your blanket statement says as much about you as it does about the people you wish to dismiss.

I know plenty of people who are anti vax and anti mandate who make a very worthwhile contribution to society. Do I agree with their anti vax/anti mandate stance? Hell no, but I still acknowledge the positive contributions they make.

I am sure plenty of other utterly vile people are able to function and contribute in society. Doesn't mean they are any less vile and in my view ultimately extinguishes any and all of the good they do through their vile behavior.

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quickymart

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#2893027 28-Mar-2022 11:00

quickymart:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/128171463/antimandate-protests-led-by-destiny-church-pastor-derek-tait-to-continue-in-christchurch

Sigh.

“This is not over till we say it’s over.” - so glad he can determine for me when something's "over". So much for standing up for me and my "freedoms" 🙄

[Councillor] Lomax thought the group's new aim with the Bill of Rights was just an excuse to be disruptive. - couldn't agree more! The mandates are being removed, I think this guy is just looking for his next thing to get him some attention now.

I hope this joke of a protest doesn't go ahead, lead by this so-called "pastor".

Well, it did go ahead in the end, just with vastly reduced numbers: https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/128182884/protest-marches-on-in-christchurch-despite-drop-in-numbers

freitasm

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#2893037 28-Mar-2022 11:51

BarTender:

Technofreak: While anti vax and anti mandate generally go hand in hand there is a good number of people who are vaccinated and anti mandate.

The significant majority of those who attended the protest did so in a non violent manner.

I completely disagree with this statement. Having had friends of mine abused, children spat at and abused and personally received threatening behavior when I walked around the periphery on the 3rd day.

Anyone who remained on the grounds after the first day were in it for the long haul with the express desire to bring down the government.

The non-violent ones did nothing to eject the ones displaying openly nationalist symbols and all sorts of vile. So they are equally as culpable for the violence at the end. I think this tweet summed it up nicely:

https://twitter.com/Te_Taipo/status/1492656497649610753

Technofreak: Your blanket statement says as much about you as it does about the people you wish to dismiss.

I know plenty of people who are anti vax and anti mandate who make a very worthwhile contribution to society. Do I agree with their anti vax/anti mandate stance? Hell no, but I still acknowledge the positive contributions they make.

I am sure plenty of other utterly vile people are able to function and contribute in society. Doesn't mean they are any less vile and in my view ultimately extinguishes any and all of the good they do through their vile behavior.

I couldn't have said better.

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Jas777

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#2893129 28-Mar-2022 13:34

BarTender:

I am sure plenty of other utterly vile people are able to function and contribute in society. Doesn't mean they are any less vile and in my view ultimately extinguishes any and all of the good they do through their vile behavior.

So are you saying 200,000 people in NZ are vile?

networkn

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#2893132 28-Mar-2022 13:42

What so is the solution for these people considered 'worthless'? Imprisonment? Ship them offshore? Shut their businesses? Something else?

BarTender

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#2893147 28-Mar-2022 13:49

Jas777: So are you saying 200,000 people in NZ are vile?

I'm saying the few thousand folks down at Parliament and the folks who support them which is thankfully no larger than 10k have extremely questionable values. Not wanting to evoke Godwin's Law but anyone who is happy to accept nationalists into their "community"... is a nationalist.

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BarTender

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#2893149 28-Mar-2022 13:52

networkn:

What so is the solution for these people considered 'worthless'? Imprisonment? Ship them offshore? Shut their businesses? Something else?

How do we deal with other folks in society that don't want to be part of society and enforce their minority authoritarian rules on the democratically elected majority? We ignore them, we shun them and show them they are not welcome. Which is exactly what happened with the vaccine pass.

Would we be saying the same about drunk drivers, people who are convicted of a criminal offence?

Actions have consequences, the unvaccinated are seeing the consequences of their decisions.

freitasm

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#2893156 28-Mar-2022 14:02

The moment your movement is hijacked by alt-right, nationalists and scammers you should denounce it and move on or retire yourself, publicly and with a great noise.

Anything else and you are obviously happy with the support of alt-right, nationalists and scammers which makes you one of them.

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freitasm

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#2893565 29-Mar-2022 15:18

An old article (about six months) but worth reading: Don't Call This Segregation (capsulenz.com)

Yesterday was November 9 and we saw a crowd of protesters hit up parliament, complete with angry signs comparing Jacinda to Hitler. That date is interesting. November 9, 1938, was Kristallnacht – also known as The Night of The Broken Glass, when there was a massive and coordinated national attack on Jews living in Germany, by the German Reich. Jewish-run shops were smashed and looted, synagogues were vandalised, thousands of families were targeted. Many of them would then go on to be murdered in concentration camps. That’s segregation.

Let’s look a little more recently, shall we? Up until the 1960s, it was common for Māori to be openly and formally segregated from Pākehā – there was even a segregated school up until 1964 in Pukekohe – and there were separate toilets and facilities for Māori. That’s segregation.

Next week, it will be exactly 32 years since South Africa allowed people of all races to use the public beaches, as they slowly repealed the many horrendous elements of the Separate Amenities Act. That’s segregation. There are places around the world where, today, people are treated as second class citizens because of their race, or sexuality, or gender. That’s segregation. Not being able to go into a shop or get a haircut is an annoyance. It is not segregation. In a situation where our choices can actually make the difference between life and death, we all need to choose our words carefully.

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quickymart

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#2895981 3-Apr-2022 07:25

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300555020/the-selfproclaimed-sheriffs-who-want-to-arrest-the-authorities

What a bunch of crazies here, no doubt emboldened since the mandates are going to being removed. Maybe I should just "declare" myself a "sheriff" too and decide what laws apply to me and which don't 🙄

“There’s no indication that the people who go on to get a JP’s seal and print things out that say they are marshals and sheriffs are motivated by anything other than a genuine belief and faith that they are what they are.” - what ethical JP would sign off on this nonsense anyway? None of the ones that I know.

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