Our new coalition government.

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Awrrr
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#2143873 12-Dec-2018 09:51

Since the holiday season is upon us I would like to be generous and gift a point to @networkn. He predicted there would be strikes with this government (JA said not) and he was absolutely correct. Good on him. (This is a one-off concession, not an invitation to pile in with all the things Labour is doing wrong that National would do better. Take your crowing elsewhere).

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tdgeek

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#2143894 12-Dec-2018 10:00

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

MikeB4:

I have no issue with individuals and groups of individuals negotiating their employment conditions, it is their right under the Employment Relations Act. They do not in my opinion have the right to hold the people of New Zealand to ransom. The Union has clearly looked at the example set by the Interisland Ferry, the Water Siders, Boiler Makers and Meatworkers disputes of the 70s and 80s and timed their action for maximum impact and maximum disruption.

I agree. IMO, the Unions are not happy with Labour, they expect the soft touch, but the teachers and health issues show they are not a soft touch, here is your second offer, more , and no more money, so still striking. Labour is centre left not left, there is a lot to do, whoever is in power right now, the last century Union games are over for those in the 2018's, not for Unions.

A diversion for a moment, On international comparisons Labour and National, are on the same point on the spectrum they are Centre Parties. NZ First is Centre with a minute leaning to right and NZ Green are Centre with a slight leaning to left. ACt are Right but also irrelevant.

That's interesting Mike. It sorta makes sense. We all want the same things, a bit more social here, a bit less there. More for employers here , more for employees there. Maybe the reluctance to spend by National is that they are conservatives, which is right, liberals spend more which is left, but if they both operate within having generally similar annual surpluses, does that make them centre? Confusing.

6FIEND

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#2143972 12-Dec-2018 11:05

I've not read anything about the AirNZ dispute. (other than the fact that there is one)

So I'm pretty much entirely ignorant on the specifics of the matter.

Can someone please explain for me what it has to do with the government? AFAIK, AirNZ is publicly traded company. It seems to be very profitable, and has an enviable reputation as one of NZ's most trusted companies/brands. I know that the Govt is a significant shareholder, and receives large dividends accordingly - but I wasn't aware that they had any operational influence?

Thanks :-)

MikeB4

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#2143973 12-Dec-2018 11:06

tdgeek:

That's interesting Mike. It sorta makes sense. We all want the same things, a bit more social here, a bit less there. More for employers here , more for employees there. Maybe the reluctance to spend by National is that they are conservatives, which is right, liberals spend more which is left, but if they both operate within having generally similar annual surpluses, does that make them centre? Confusing.

My simple view is if a Government has a deficit spend less. If a Government has a surplus tax less. If a Government has balanced books then it's good management. Thats the financials, but Government is not just about financials, it's about people, all people. Sometimes doing the best for people means ignoring the financials and that is good management. Doing best for people is not necessarily doing for every whim but doing for the collective good but keeping a bit for the individual, that is good management.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

networkn

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#2143976 12-Dec-2018 11:10

Rikkitic:

Since the holiday season is upon us I would like to be generous and gift a point to @networkn. He predicted there would be strikes with this government (JA said not) and he was absolutely correct. Good on him. (This is a one-off concession, not an invitation to pile in with all the things Labour is doing wrong that National would do better. Take your crowing elsewhere).

It might surprise you to know I gain no pleasure in being right. I want what's best for New Zealand and her citizens.

networkn

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#2143977 12-Dec-2018 11:10

6FIEND:

I've not read anything about the AirNZ dispute. (other than the fact that there is one)

So I'm pretty much entirely ignorant on the specifics of the matter.

Can someone please explain for me what it has to do with the government? AFAIK, AirNZ is publicly traded company. It seems to be very profitable, and has an enviable reputation as one of NZ's most trusted companies/brands. I know that the Govt is a significant shareholder, and receives large dividends accordingly - but I wasn't aware that they had any operational influence?

Thanks :-)

Yeah I was surprised at this as well.

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tdgeek

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#2143980 12-Dec-2018 11:12

6FIEND:

I've not read anything about the AirNZ dispute. (other than the fact that there is one)

So I'm pretty much entirely ignorant on the specifics of the matter.

Can someone please explain for me what it has to do with the government? AFAIK, AirNZ is publicly traded company. It seems to be very profitable, and has an enviable reputation as one of NZ's most trusted companies/brands. I know that the Govt is a significant shareholder, and receives large dividends accordingly - but I wasn't aware that they had any operational influence?

Thanks :-)

Its 53%. Check the other thread, Steve Biddle has added good info there. As the saying goes "its complicated"

Edit. And dont have any operational influence, they can't do its a public company

networkn

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#2143982 12-Dec-2018 11:12

MikeB4:

A diversion for a moment, On international comparisons Labour and National, are on the same point on the spectrum they are Centre Parties. NZ First is Centre with a minute leaning to right and NZ Green are Centre with a slight leaning to left. ACt are Right but also irrelevant.

I see Green as left. Their social policies are pretty far left.

tdgeek

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#2143986 12-Dec-2018 11:20

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

That's interesting Mike. It sorta makes sense. We all want the same things, a bit more social here, a bit less there. More for employers here , more for employees there. Maybe the reluctance to spend by National is that they are conservatives, which is right, liberals spend more which is left, but if they both operate within having generally similar annual surpluses, does that make them centre? Confusing.

My simple view is if a Government has a deficit spend less. If a Government has a surplus tax less. If a Government has balanced books then it's good management. Thats the financials, but Government is not just about financials, it's about people, all people. Sometimes doing the best for people means ignoring the financials and that is good management. Doing best for people is not necessarily doing for every whim but doing for the collective good but keeping a bit for the individual, that is good management.

Surpluses and deficits are annually reported, but many costs are future costs. New roads down the track, planning for one day update this or that. If almost everything was up to date, future capex allocated and planned, then we can disburse taxes back, as these are now excess taxes. Or we can fiddle with them, always looking at the long term, we dont want to build up too many reserves, but we do not to maintain some reserves if we can. The ultimate plan is to only tax what is needed, as that helps the economy.

Rikkitic

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#2143990 12-Dec-2018 11:25

networkn:

It might surprise you to know I gain no pleasure in being right. I want what's best for New Zealand and her citizens.

I'm sure we all do. We just have different visions about how to achieve that.

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Rikkitic

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#2143993 12-Dec-2018 11:26

networkn:

I see Green as left. Their social policies are pretty far left.

If you start from neutral, they aren't so far left. If you start from right, they are further away.

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MikeB4

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#2144005 12-Dec-2018 11:40

6FIEND:

I've not read anything about the AirNZ dispute. (other than the fact that there is one)

So I'm pretty much entirely ignorant on the specifics of the matter.

Can someone please explain for me what it has to do with the government? AFAIK, AirNZ is publicly traded company. It seems to be very profitable, and has an enviable reputation as one of NZ's most trusted companies/brands. I know that the Govt is a significant shareholder, and receives large dividends accordingly - but I wasn't aware that they had any operational influence?

Thanks :-)

The Government is a stake holder and as such has a vested interest however the Governments role is the NZ people and our economy. The affect of a 3 day strike will impact all of New Zealand, our economy and our lucrative tourist industry and thousands on New Zealand families. The Governments role is to look after that and to intercede when the parties in a dispute that can have an impact like this cannot come to an agreement. The Government has powers in this regard. The Unions and business management should not be allowed to hold NZ to ransom. This is a strategic dispute design for maximum impact to gain maximum advantage. If the Government sits on its hands with this I believe we are going to see a whole lot more stategic strikes just like the 70s and 80s. This is not a time for JA to smile and be everyones friend it is time to act as the Government and act as the Prime Minister.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

6FIEND

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#2144021 12-Dec-2018 11:56

Thanks guys, that clears things up for me :-)

tdgeek

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#2144030 12-Dec-2018 12:14

MikeB4:

6FIEND:

I've not read anything about the AirNZ dispute. (other than the fact that there is one)

So I'm pretty much entirely ignorant on the specifics of the matter.

Can someone please explain for me what it has to do with the government? AFAIK, AirNZ is publicly traded company. It seems to be very profitable, and has an enviable reputation as one of NZ's most trusted companies/brands. I know that the Govt is a significant shareholder, and receives large dividends accordingly - but I wasn't aware that they had any operational influence?

Thanks :-)

The Government is a stake holder and as such has a vested interest however the Governments role is the NZ people and our economy. The affect of a 3 day strike will impact all of New Zealand, our economy and our lucrative tourist industry and thousands on New Zealand families. The Governments role is to look after that and to intercede when the parties in a dispute that can have an impact like this cannot come to an agreement. The Government has powers in this regard. The Unions and business management should not be allowed to hold NZ to ransom. This is a strategic dispute design for maximum impact to gain maximum advantage. If the Government sits on its hands with this I believe we are going to see a whole lot more stategic strikes just like the 70s and 80s. This is not a time for JA to smile and be everyones friend it is time to act as the Government and act as the Prime Minister.

I hear that but what about the other 47% of shareholders? Its not an SOE its a public company

networkn

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#2144072 12-Dec-2018 13:06

MikeB4:

The Government is a stake holder and as such has a vested interest however the Governments role is the NZ people and our economy. The affect of a 3 day strike will impact all of New Zealand, our economy and our lucrative tourist industry and thousands on New Zealand families. The Governments role is to look after that and to intercede when the parties in a dispute that can have an impact like this cannot come to an agreement. The Government has powers in this regard. The Unions and business management should not be allowed to hold NZ to ransom. This is a strategic dispute design for maximum impact to gain maximum advantage. If the Government sits on its hands with this I believe we are going to see a whole lot more stategic strikes just like the 70s and 80s. This is not a time for JA to smile and be everyones friend it is time to act as the Government and act as the Prime Minister.

This is one of the first real tests of her abilities as PM. I will be watching this with interest, but anything less than diverting this would be a massive fail to my mind.

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