Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification

Forums › Politics › Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

1 | ... | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | ... | 118

3419 posts

Uber Geek

#2955365 16-Aug-2022 16:05

GV27:

Just to be clear on this one:

https://twitter.com/jo_moir/status/1559375521640849411

"It does not constitute a full caucus unless everyone is invited, so, of course, for natural justice, of course Gaurav Sharma would be a part of that meeting.'' - Jacinda Ardern 24 hours ago and approx. 5 hours before a secret meeting not including Sharma.

In which case, logic tells us the meeting last night was not a caucus meeting. The Herald thing you linked actually said 'zoom meeting' but you've misrepresented it as a caucus meeting ("Journalists have already confirmed that a Caucus meeting" ) in your subsequent post.

Details matter. Let's not make stuff up.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#2955384 16-Aug-2022 17:13

elpenguino:

In which case, logic tells us the meeting last night was not a caucus meeting. The Herald thing you linked actually said 'zoom meeting' but you've misrepresented it as a caucus meeting ("Journalists have already confirmed that a Caucus meeting" ) in your subsequent post.

Details matter. Let's not make stuff up.

Feel free to apologise, although I shan't hold my breath.

https://twitter.com/coughlthom/status/1559376819966554112

Thomas Coughlan @coughlthom We have confirmed a caucus meeting took place last night and that it was without Sharma.

gzt

17104 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2955385 16-Aug-2022 17:19

As for the 'state of mind' comment, we see similar comments from the PM and other senior MPs, who then go and hold secret caucus meetings. This is gaslighting, pure and simple,

Several of Sharma's public statements discussed depression and worse. MPs were absolutely right to be concerned. It looked like a Jamie Lee Ross situation. Personally I did not feel comfortable posting during that phase. Sharma has since clarified that is all in the past and may have been in the past when he was making those comments.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18657 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2955386 16-Aug-2022 17:23

GV27:

elpenguino:

In which case, logic tells us the meeting last night was not a caucus meeting. The Herald thing you linked actually said 'zoom meeting' but you've misrepresented it as a caucus meeting ("Journalists have already confirmed that a Caucus meeting" ) in your subsequent post.

Details matter. Let's not make stuff up.

Feel free to apologise, although I shan't hold my breath.

https://twitter.com/coughlthom/status/1559376819966554112

Thomas Coughlan @coughlthom We have confirmed a caucus meeting took place last night and that it was without Sharma.

So, is a caucus meeting a meeting of the caucus, or a meeting of people who happen to be members of a caucus? If the former, it requires that every member be present in order to meet the definition. If the latter, it is just a meeting of people who share membership of a caucus, but it is not a 'caucus' meeting.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#2955387 16-Aug-2022 17:24

Rikkitic:

So, is a caucus meeting a meeting of the caucus, or a meeting of people who happen to be members of a caucus? If the former, it requires that every member be present in order to meet the definition. If the latter, it is just a meeting of people who share membership of a caucus, but it is not a 'caucus' meeting.

I'm being accused of misrepresenting something when the tweet is there, in black and white, from a senior reporter, saying a caucus meeting took place, along with snide comments about 'making things up'.

I want my apology.

antonknee

1133 posts

Uber Geek

#2955389 16-Aug-2022 18:10

networkn:

This all just feels really odd. From both sides. It's not how I'd have handled it from Labour's side, but it's hard to get an accurate grasp on what has *actually* occurred.

Right. Sharma's initial disclosure/rant - odd. Ardern's definitive statements - odd. When one of her skills is communications/PRs/crisis handling she looks to have approached this the wrong way. The lack of investigation into really any of it - odd.

If Sharma's bullying claims are true (and my personal opinion/gut feel is that they're true but he is exaggerating) then there's a real issue there. I'd want to see at least "we'll look into it".

In any case, it looks like Sharma himself is a bully. If he continues as an MP, I hope the efforts to eliminate that redouble.

Also odd - Sharma nominates the time for today's caucus meeting and then doesn't even show up?

gzt

17104 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2955391 16-Aug-2022 18:42

Ardern has handled this as well as it could have been at this point. It was a bun fight with all kinds of statements which have not yet been verified or clarified.

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

gzt

17104 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2955392 16-Aug-2022 18:54

Sharma suspended from caucus:

RNZ: "First if there's an issue you go to the whips. If you're unable to get resolution you go to either the Labour leader or to someone the Labour leader nominates. And if it's still unresolved you go to caucus. That didn't happen. "He did raise them with my chief of staff at the end of last year, he told me about that and he also told me the resolution that was reached between them and I've seen the messages that demonstrate that. Neither of us heard anything after that until the events that led to this."

Plenty of detail in that article. The suspension is unfortunate and understandable. It appears to me Labour will need to examine some of the issues around behavior in the working environment. No doubt many of these apply to parliament as a whole. Even so, I expect Labour to address this

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2955393 16-Aug-2022 18:57

GV27:

Rikkitic:

So, is a caucus meeting a meeting of the caucus, or a meeting of people who happen to be members of a caucus? If the former, it requires that every member be present in order to meet the definition. If the latter, it is just a meeting of people who share membership of a caucus, but it is not a 'caucus' meeting.

I'm being accused of misrepresenting something when the tweet is there, in black and white, from a senior reporter, saying a caucus meeting took place, along with snide comments about 'making things up'.

I want my apology.

Im not buying into this "thread" same as the opposite other thread (Ford vs Holden, Holden vs Ford), but you are banking on Twitter as the righteous news feed?

I find that deeply disturbing

GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#2955401 16-Aug-2022 19:33

tdgeek:

Im not buying into this "thread" same as the opposite other thread (Ford vs Holden, Holden vs Ford), but you are banking on Twitter as the righteous news feed?

I find that deeply disturbing

(C) Star Wars

The journalists who use it, yes. For ordinary reckons of the great unwashed? Non.

gzt

17104 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2955411 16-Aug-2022 20:31

Rikkitic: RNZ keeps describing him as a 'rogue' MP. Is that correct? It hardly sounds like objective journalism to me.

It is used in the sense of 'going rogue' rather than the sense of 'disreputable crim'. That is certainly the way I read similar headlines. Quoting Webster on going rogue:

The expression today is more likely to be used to indicate that someone is displaying some degree of independence or failing to follow an expected script.

I agree with you though. The fact many people perceived similar to the 'villiain' sense show that it was a bad choice in that and similar articles.

gzt

17104 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2955413 16-Aug-2022 20:35

In many cases it's used in a semi-positive 'rebel' sense.

No comparison intended example Palin's autobiography

quickymart

13925 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#2955418 16-Aug-2022 21:03

Thread diversion a bit, but this was a (satirical) counterpoint book:

networkn

Networkn
32349 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2955587 17-Aug-2022 14:08

antonknee:

Right. Sharma's initial disclosure/rant - odd. Ardern's definitive statements - odd. When one of her skills is communications/PRs/crisis handling she looks to have approached this the wrong way. The lack of investigation into really any of it - odd.

If Sharma's bullying claims are true (and my personal opinion/gut feel is that they're true but he is exaggerating) then there's a real issue there. I'd want to see at least "we'll look into it".

In any case, it looks like Sharma himself is a bully. If he continues as an MP, I hope the efforts to eliminate that redouble.

Also odd - Sharma nominates the time for today's caucus meeting and then doesn't even show up?

The biggest concern I have with this, is that he repeatedly asked them to investigate the claims against him and apparently they refused, yet they did apparently investigate the claims made by the staffers, though it's not entirely clear how they differ or if they do.

There isn't enough information here to be definitive, but my gut says, that if Ardern is being so definitive she must be pretty certain of Labours position and handling of it, because if it turns out she is wrong, the consequences could/would/should be pretty severe, to her reputation and standing.

I can sort of see how this has come about looking from either side. I doubt the full truth won't come out for a while if ever.

quickymart

13925 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#2956349 18-Aug-2022 20:28

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/labour-s-dr-gaurav-sharma-breaks-silence-accusing-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-of-cover-up-releases-secret-recording-of-mp.html

I honestly don't know if I believe the guy or not. He comes across (to me) as quite petty - plus I also don't think he's giving us the full story.

1 | ... | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | ... | 118