NZ gun laws

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#2200202 17-Mar-2019 14:02

So a day after the attack the prime minister comes out with this? Why - because its so easy to push the blame towards gun laws and so easy to just change the gun law.

As was seen in France (truck), Boston (pressure cooker) etc. - there is no need for guns to cause terror.

"if there is a will there is a way"

The big failing here is with the spying agencies. Public posts on known extremist sites and even pictures of his guns on Twitter days before the attack and nothing happened?!

The government can hardly build 30 houses let alone make the spying agencies more capable, so an easy way to divert attention to something they don't actually need to really do any work to change.

I don't own guns BTW

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GV27

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#2200213 17-Mar-2019 14:13

Tracer:

Fred99:

Panic buying of guns ahead of ban sparked by christchurch shooting

Sickening gun nut behaviour.

Pretty sure if the government were talking about banning Nvidia graphics cards a whole bunch of gaming nuts would panic buy too. That's just human nature.

Let me know when someone walks into PB Tech and raytraces 50 people to death.

Rikkitic

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#2200216 17-Mar-2019 14:21

The two cannot be compared. At least not by any normal individual.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

dejadeadnz

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#2200220 17-Mar-2019 14:29

Zeon:

So a day after the attack the prime minister comes out with this? Why - because its so easy to push the blame towards gun laws and so easy to just change the gun law.

As was seen in France (truck), Boston (pressure cooker) etc. - there is no need for guns to cause terror.

"if there is a will there is a way"

FFS, engage brain before posting. How many times have you seen a terrorist truck attack cause 50 deaths? Or even half that? Trucks also have completely benign uses; the same applies to pressure cookers. And to assemble a bomb using a pressure cooker takes a degree of skill and time that are of themselves hindrances to murderous losers.

Rikkitic

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#2200221 17-Mar-2019 14:29

Zeon:

So a day after the attack the prime minister comes out with this? Why - because its so easy to push the blame towards gun laws and so easy to just change the gun law.

As was seen in France (truck), Boston (pressure cooker) etc. - there is no need for guns to cause terror.

"if there is a will there is a way"

The big failing here is with the spying agencies. Public posts on known extremist sites and even pictures of his guns on Twitter days before the attack and nothing happened?!

The government can hardly build 30 houses let alone make the spying agencies more capable, so an easy way to divert attention to something they don't actually need to really do any work to change.

I don't own guns BTW

Not owning guns doesn't excuse you from making silly posts. This is the worst kind of misleading Fox News-style bullsh¡t.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Fred99

13684 posts

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#2200222 17-Mar-2019 14:29

Zeon:

So a day after the attack the prime minister comes out with this? Why - because its so easy to push the blame towards gun laws and so easy to just change the gun law.

As was seen in France (truck), Boston (pressure cooker) etc. - there is no need for guns to cause terror.

"if there is a will there is a way"

The big failing here is with the spying agencies. Public posts on known extremist sites and even pictures of his guns on Twitter days before the attack and nothing happened?!

The government can hardly build 30 houses let alone make the spying agencies more capable, so an easy way to divert attention to something they don't actually need to really do any work to change.

I don't own guns BTW

Easy access to the type of guns used made it easy for the perpetrator to do what he did and ensure it received maximum impact by his use of live-streaming.

Sure, a truck, a bomb, whatever could have been used as a weapon.

But they weren't. Get it?

wsnz

649 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2200229 17-Mar-2019 14:42

Zeon:

So a day after the attack the prime minister comes out with this? Why - because its so easy to push the blame towards gun laws and so easy to just change the gun law.

Firstly, let me say that I personally do not see any reason why civilians need to own those semi-auto weapons, however the timing of the announcement without any associated implementation was very poorly handled. The PM would however been under extreme pressure to show she was implementing specific mitigation measures in the wake of the killings. It's a difficult decision to make.

Zeon:

As was seen in France (truck), Boston (pressure cooker) etc. - there is no need for guns to cause terror.

IED's were attached to the vehicle used in this incident too. How do we handle this? Ban any combination of chemicals - there are many - that can cause an explosion? Fertilisers that fit this category are now controlled, but not banned, and hence are difficult to procure in large volumes even for farmers. They are also always mixed with other compounds beneficial for grass growth which weaken the sudden exothermic reaction. But there are many other ways for a individuals hell bent on destruction.

Note I have purposefully omitted references to the specifics.

Zeon:

The big failing here is with the spying agencies. Public posts on known extremist sites and even pictures of his guns on Twitter days before the attack and nothing happened?!

The government can hardly build 30 houses let alone make the spying agencies more capable, so an easy way to divert attention to something they don't actually need to really do any work to change.

It will be interesting to see what, if anything, they knew about this person prior to the incident. I am certain procedures will change and investment in the security services will increase subsequent to this incident.

I think it's important to also note the role the public play in this. How many people read or saw this person's posts but did not alert the authorities? I am not advocating paranoia and reporting of every small thing, however there were some very large red flags with posts from this individual.

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wsnz

649 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2200231 17-Mar-2019 14:44

Fred99:

Sure, a truck, a bomb, whatever could have been used as a weapon.

But they weren't. Get it?

IED's were present. They did not however explode.

Should wait until such a device is used successfully and then deal with it? That's his point, and it is a valid one.

Tracer

343 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2200232 17-Mar-2019 14:47

Fred99:

*sigh*

But they haven't, won't, and gaming cards weren't just used by one person to murder 50 people and live-stream the horror for the pleasure of other fascists.

GV27:

Let me know when someone walks into PB Tech and raytraces 50 people to death.

Rikkitic:

The two cannot be compared. At least not by any normal individual.

Way to totally miss the point (that this "sickening" behaviour is not specific to "gun nuts"). I would have though such an example would make the point very clear but I guess people see what they want to see.

GV27

5897 posts

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#2200235 17-Mar-2019 14:51

Tracer:

Way to totally miss the point (that this "sickening" behaviour is not specific to "gun nuts"). I would have though such an example would make the point very clear but I guess people see what they want to see.

Maybe your point isn't actually that valid?

dejadeadnz

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#2200236 17-Mar-2019 14:51

Nobody is saying that only gun nuts commit terrorism; what people are saying is that having easy access to high-powered guns makes it much easier for these losers to turn their autoerotic fantasies into reality. It's really not that hard to grasp if a few of you would bother to just engage your brains a bit. The effort required is probably less than the amount of physical effort it took to write your various inane replies.

Tracer

343 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2200242 17-Mar-2019 15:06

dejadeadnz:

Nobody is saying that only gun nuts commit terrorism; what people are saying is that having easy access to high-powered guns makes it much easier for these losers to turn their autoerotic fantasies into reality. It's really not that hard to grasp if a few of you would bother to just engage your brains a bit. The effort required is probably less than the amount of physical effort it took to write your various inane replies.

I guess you thought you were replying to someone else? Your post doesn't relate to anything I argued. I think I'm done with this thread. Have a great day chaps.

dolsen

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#2200244 17-Mar-2019 15:08

For disclosure - I have a few S/A shotguns.

I think what that "person" did down in Christchurch is absolutely horrible, and, I do agree with some reform of the arms act, however, I do not support the banning of all S/A weapons. I believe that a knee jerk reaction is not needed at this time and the people who are calling for it do not have all of the information or understanding of how some types of weapons are used.

I do support tightening of S/A guns, and do support banning of some as well. What the shooter was able to do was buy a fully legal gun, as well as high capacity magazines. The combination of these is what made this so lethal and I do agree that the ability of people to combine these should be removed. To be clear, the weapons used were illegal as configured for his licence. In this sense, they were not legal guns.

I do not believe that "assault rifles" of the type the shooter used should be available without very strong restrictions. I am also ok with them being banned. The ability to change magazines quickly, and having a large capacity means that he was able to rapidly kill many people.

I would like S/A weapons without magazines and a small fixed capacity to still be allowed. These can not be reloaded just by swapping a magazine, and, a skilled pump / lever action user would be able to cycle through at a similar rate than the average S/A user.

There are a large number of law abiding people who use S/A shot guns for duck / clay target and pest control. Gas operated semi auto shotguns are better than single / double / triple barrel (they do exist) shotguns as they use some of the recoil to cycle the cartridge, reducing the recoil felt. This is one of the reasons they are so popular. There are currently millions of dollars of these sort of weapons in the hands of the public.

If they are to be banned though, I would expect to be compensated for the value of the weapons that I have legally purchased and used without incident. I do not believe that it would be fair to remove the property rights of existing owners because some abhorrent waste of space used something similar to a tool that many, many people use without incident.

For me personally, about the worst thing would be if S/A shotguns were changed to an E category without the ability to buy back the guns at a fair price. If they are banned completely, I would expect them to be brought back. If they are changed to an E cat, I would not expect a buy back, however, the market value of them would drop significantly as there would be a lot of people (including myself) who wouldn't want to go to the expense of changing everything over for the E cat licence. An E cat requires a different safe along with some other requirements. I already have a safe for my weapons which will stop anyone but an extremely motivated robber.

I guess it could be considered that I am a bit like some of the other people on here with the "ban that because I don't use it therefore I don't care" attitude when I say ban the interchangeable mag S/A but keep the fixed capacity S/A. It's not just because I legally (for now) use S/A shotguns but have no interest in the type of weapon that that person used, but, because there are reasons that S/A shotguns are better (recoil reduction) and the fact that the things that made that weapon so lethal do not apply to all S/A guns.

GV27

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#2200248 17-Mar-2019 15:18

I have no bones about a taxpayer funded buy-back of heavy weaponary and people should absolutely get market price if they are handing them in; hell, even catalogue/new price.

MikeB4

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#2200270 17-Mar-2019 16:06

I was a hunter in my youth, I owned firearms.

Following Christchurch terror attack the Government should have put an immediate import and sale of firearms ban in place and should remain in place until a full review is completed.

I don't see any place for private ownership of firearms and hunting crossbows in New Zealand today.

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