Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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#2982083 12-Oct-2022 19:23

sir1963:

We could drop farming by 90% and still feed NZ, we will simply need alternatives for exports.

Apple computer for example has a quarterly profit bigger than NZs entire GDP.

Time changes.

Yep. If crops are not suited, you change crops. You can move from sheep to cattle to something else. The constant is farming. I recall the days when I was a nipper it was all about sheep. Mutton, lamb and wool. Not now. Milk (we never did dairy) you can make milk from anything it seems. Fortify it with the accepted body-available calcium and whatever else, make it "seem" like milk, sorted. Farmers are creative. Beef? Maybe chicken is better, so farm that. You can get protein from innumerable sources.

I feel there is a gap between reality/capability and politics.

tdgeek

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#2982088 12-Oct-2022 19:31

marmel:

You just sound like you are throwing out sound bites from the Green Party Conference.

You have made no mention about the issues farmers have with the proposal, lack of genuine consultation etc and I suspect that is because you haven't actually listened to anything farmers have said.

I'm not going to argue about climate change, this thread is about the Labour Government/Jacinda Adern.

The points I have made are about the Labour response/proposal and how I believe it is seriously lacking.

Itemise what needs to change, but I get your stance. Chris Luxon said that farmers need to pay, but as usual no news on that. Idealogy, and no direction.

Its a politics thread on a scientific topic that affects all of us, never the twain shall meet, as its about votes. I doubt Labour will be hanging from the rafters with the massive votes they will get.

Consultation? You could rightly argue that who is the Govt to decide whats right. Same for the target.

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#2982091 12-Oct-2022 19:39

marmel:

I strongly disagree with your 'knowledge' of farmers which appears to be nil. I suggest you go for a drive and meet some. I've worked on farms and have family that are 5th generation on their farm so I might be a bit biased, but I know what farming and care of the land means to them.

I was raised on a farm, not a tiny farm. Farming isnt a change everything every year event. Things change. beef prices, wool prices, barley prices, you evolve. You drift away from the past successes as times change. Climate change is no different. If you crop, your crops will change due to heat and moisture. Beef and dairy farmers wont be selling up at the sales next week. Some wont budge, most will adapt. Use the emissions rewards to plant and mitigate fees. Diversify more. The smart ones will "use" that, and will become carbon beneficial. Thats the goal, to persuade a behavioural change.

Key word is persuade. If it was "force" then its a problem. Push natural evolvement along with fees AND incentives to mitigate those fees

GV27

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#2982139 13-Oct-2022 06:29

To my knowledge we have not thrown out the Ambassador of Russian Federation and I'm struggling to think of what it would take at this point, short of a nuclear war or a direct strike on NZ itself.

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#2982141 13-Oct-2022 06:49

NZ follows Australia who hasnt expelled their Russian Ambassador despite his frequent bagging of Australia. Neither has the UK or USA, not sure of your point.

"short of a nuclear war or a direct strike on NZ itself" That's an extreme view.

GV27

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#2982142 13-Oct-2022 06:58

tdgeek:

NZ follows Australia who hasnt expelled their Russian Ambassador despite his frequent bagging of Australia. Neither has the UK or USA, not sure of your point.

"short of a nuclear war or a direct strike on NZ itself" That's an extreme view.

Given we're past the point of 'retaliatory strikes on residential buildings' in Russia's war with Ukraine, I'm starting to wonder if we have any lines in the sand at all.

As for 'following Austalia', brilliant, can we have their student loan repayment scheme as well?

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#2982144 13-Oct-2022 07:16

GV27:

Given we're past the point of 'retaliatory strikes on residential buildings' in Russia's war with Ukraine, I'm starting to wonder if we have any lines in the sand at all.

As for 'following Austalia', brilliant, can we have their student loan repayment scheme as well?

As far as I see it, no other country is involved in a war with Russia, apart from the Ukraine, that's probably why no one of note has expelled their Russian Ambassador.

I guess we could be "world leading" and expel ours though :-)

Yes, we could use their scheme, and swap that with their support of Kiwi expats living in Australia...

sir1963

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#2982146 13-Oct-2022 07:30

tdgeek:

marmel:

You just sound like you are throwing out sound bites from the Green Party Conference.

You have made no mention about the issues farmers have with the proposal, lack of genuine consultation etc and I suspect that is because you haven't actually listened to anything farmers have said.

I'm not going to argue about climate change, this thread is about the Labour Government/Jacinda Adern.

The points I have made are about the Labour response/proposal and how I believe it is seriously lacking.

Itemise what needs to change, but I get your stance. Chris Luxon said that farmers need to pay, but as usual no news on that. Idealogy, and no direction.

Its a politics thread on a scientific topic that affects all of us, never the twain shall meet, as its about votes. I doubt Labour will be hanging from the rafters with the massive votes they will get.

Consultation? You could rightly argue that who is the Govt to decide whats right. Same for the target.

I see RAL (Ruapehu Alpine Lifts) has gone into voluntary administration.

Another sign of global warming (and covid), but how many $millions have gone missing from the Central Plateau because of this ?

It is time to diversify.

GV27

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#2982147 13-Oct-2022 07:43

sir1963:

I see RAL (Ruapehu Alpine Lifts) has gone into voluntary administration.

Another sign of global warming (and covid), but how many $millions have gone missing from the Central Plateau because of this ?

It is time to diversify.

You're right, let's turn the ski field into a dairy farm.

JPNZ

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#2982155 13-Oct-2022 08:10

sir1963:

I see RAL (Ruapehu Alpine Lifts) has gone into voluntary administration.

Another sign of global warming (and covid), but how many $millions have gone missing from the Central Plateau because of this ?

It is time to diversify.

I'd like to know how the business case looked for MBIE and the government to plow $15 million dollars of taxpayers money into what has essentially always been a loss making venture. Now the taxpayers lose out...

"MBIE had first granted it a $10m loan in 2018 to build its Sky Waka gondola on the slopes of Whakapapa. Then, as the effect of the Covid border closures bit tourism, the ministry agreed to an additional $5m loan at the concessionary interest rate of 2.78 percent.

Taxpayers are unlikely to ever see that money back again: the terms of the loan, disclosed in a footnote to the ski operator's most recent accounts, reveal that it will only be repaid if the numbers of passengers other than skiers on the new gondola exceeds 300,000 in one financial year. Right now, the company is not getting even a fraction of that patronage.

The company now owes $15 million to MBIE as well as a $6 million loan facility from ANZ bank – an overdraft it has been struggling to service."

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sir1963

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#2982164 13-Oct-2022 08:36

GV27:

sir1963:

I see RAL (Ruapehu Alpine Lifts) has gone into voluntary administration.

Another sign of global warming (and covid), but how many $millions have gone missing from the Central Plateau because of this ?

It is time to diversify.

You're right, let's turn the ski field into a dairy farm.

Nope, its just more proof that Global warming is a problem, it is impacting businesses.

How much food and farming will be possible with a crash in pollinating insect populations ?

https://ento.psu.edu/research/centers/pollinators/resources-and-outreach/disappearing-pollinators

NZ is not immune.

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#2982165 13-Oct-2022 08:38

JPNZ:

sir1963:

I see RAL (Ruapehu Alpine Lifts) has gone into voluntary administration.

Another sign of global warming (and covid), but how many $millions have gone missing from the Central Plateau because of this ?

It is time to diversify.

I'd like to know how the business case looked for MBIE and the government to plow $15 million dollars of taxpayers money into what has essentially always been a loss making venture. Now the taxpayers lose out...

"MBIE had first granted it a $10m loan in 2018 to build its Sky Waka gondola on the slopes of Whakapapa. Then, as the effect of the Covid border closures bit tourism, the ministry agreed to an additional $5m loan at the concessionary interest rate of 2.78 percent.

Taxpayers are unlikely to ever see that money back again: the terms of the loan, disclosed in a footnote to the ski operator's most recent accounts, reveal that it will only be repaid if the numbers of passengers other than skiers on the new gondola exceeds 300,000 in one financial year. Right now, the company is not getting even a fraction of that patronage.

The company now owes $15 million to MBIE as well as a $6 million loan facility from ANZ bank – an overdraft it has been struggling to service."

sort of like the $Billions it paid to other businesses for Covid I guess.

GV27

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#2982170 13-Oct-2022 08:45

JPNZ:

I'd like to know how the business case looked for MBIE and the government to plow $15 million dollars of taxpayers money into what has essentially always been a loss making venture. Now the taxpayers lose out...

"MBIE had first granted it a $10m loan in 2018 to build its Sky Waka gondola on the slopes of Whakapapa. Then, as the effect of the Covid border closures bit tourism, the ministry agreed to an additional $5m loan at the concessionary interest rate of 2.78 percent.

Taxpayers are unlikely to ever see that money back again: the terms of the loan, disclosed in a footnote to the ski operator's most recent accounts, reveal that it will only be repaid if the numbers of passengers other than skiers on the new gondola exceeds 300,000 in one financial year. Right now, the company is not getting even a fraction of that patronage.

The company now owes $15 million to MBIE as well as a $6 million loan facility from ANZ bank – an overdraft it has been struggling to service."

There is a bunch of stuff knocking around the traps about RAL, probably only a matter of time before all the people with bits of the story put their heads together and we actually find out some what the full story is.

But to give you some idea, the 300,000 figure is absurd. Nothing should ever have been approved on that. That's over 800 people a day, on average. Snow, no snow, eruption, no eruption (all foreseeable risks with Ruapehu), summer, winter, you've got to get over 800 people through the gondola to even repay the loan, let alone actually make money off the thing. If someone signed off on that kind of usage without doing something basic as a sniff test on what that actually means that's getting into 'please explain' territory to the relevant Minister.

Technofreak

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#2982191 13-Oct-2022 10:18

Agree about the eruption risks etc but the gondola was always planned to be use summer and winter snow or no snow.

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#2982194 13-Oct-2022 10:33

sir1963:

I see RAL (Ruapehu Alpine Lifts) has gone into voluntary administration.

Another sign of global warming (and covid), but how many $millions have gone missing from the Central Plateau because of this ?

It is time to diversify.

Yes, and now is not the time to buy a lifetime ruapehu winter pass.

Thanks to the gondola(s) there might be a future in summer time mountain biking.

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